Stud Bunnies

[BCBaroo]

Shalane Flanagan rabbits for Shelby Houlihan in Heusden.
Brenda Martinez rabbits the women's mile in London.

I'm guessing that was a team thing for Shalane, but was it a financial thing for BMart?

I don't recall such highly ranked runner serving as rabbits. But - I have a hard time keeping up with all the African men, so perhaps it's commonplace and I am just not informed.

Thoughts?

[Atticus]

Shalane Flanagan rabbits for Shelby Houlihan in Heusden.
Brenda Martinez rabbits the women's mile in London.

I'm guessing that was a team thing for Shalane, but was it a financial thing for BMart?

I don't recall such highly ranked runner serving as rabbits. But - I have a hard time keeping up with all the African men, so perhaps it's commonplace and I am just not informed.

Thoughts?

There needs to be a Bunny School.
Running out 15m ahead of the pack does nothing. If they won't stay with you, drop back to them and then gradually increase the pace to get back to the time asked.

[aaronk]

There needs to be a Bunny School.
Running out 15m ahead of the pack does nothing. If they won't stay with you, drop back to them and then gradually increase the pace to get back to the time asked.

Disagree about those "front running" rabbits---male or female!
To my knowledge, rabbits are asked to run a certain time by the athlete wanting a fast time---or a WR!
Genzebe hired Chanelle Price in Monaco for her WR!

Yes, Flanagan did it because of the team aspect.
And according to Houlihan, did a great job---taking her through 3K in 8:53.
BTW, that means Houlihan did her final 2000 in 5:41, which is about 14:12 pace for the full 5000!!
Shows she has potential for MUCH faster time!!

Phoebe Wright did a lot of rabbiting---thinking especially about the Oxy 1500 where Cain ran her 4:04!
Wright went through 800 in 2:10 or 2:11.

Matt Scherer did great rabbiting for 800 races!

But back to my disagreement!
If the athlete who asked for a certain time refuses to follow the rabbit---who is running the EXACT time that athlete asked for---it's the athlete's fault & problem for NOT following!!

The rabbit is doing his or her job!
If the athlete refuses to follow, then why blame the rabbit??

[NotDutra5]

But back to my disagreement!
If the athlete who asked for a certain time refuses to follow the rabbit---who is running the EXACT time that athlete asked for---it's the athlete's fault & problem for NOT following!!

Agreed. In addition, the contract may stipulate the time which limits the rabbit's options.

[Atticus]

Agreed. In addition, the contract may stipulate the time which limits the rabbit's options.

You both missed my point. There IS a time to be run, but it should not be ONLY the rabbit. The rabbit's job is to get the front of the pack there at that time. Running away from the pack does not do ANYthing. If they do not engage, it's the rabbit's job to fall back to the pack and then gradually up the pace to the desired time. If you are towing a m800 field to a 50.0 and they disengage after the first 100, then you drift back, reengage, and recalibrate after the 200 what is necessary to get to 50. If they won't respond again, at least you did the right thing in reengaging them. Just running a solo 50 does NOTHING.

[Trickstat]

From what I hear, rabbits (pacemakers - UK) are usually paid by meet organisers to run a certain set of splits and therefore it is not their problem if the field opts not to follow them. Of course, this often results in a situation which isn't helpful to the athletes or good for spectators/viewers and there is a lot to be said for them easing back to let the field regain contact but it seems that isn't encouraged.

I suspect the Flanagan/Houlihan arrangement was a little different due to the more soecific professional relationship between them.

[gh]

...

I suspect the Flanagan/Houlihan arrangement was a little different due to the more soecific professional relationship between them.

you also rarely see rabbits not followed in distance races; it's the 1500/M where things typically go wonky

[mcgato]

Chanelle Price was rabbit for Dibaba's world record 1500 a couple of years ago. I guess if you want a 2:04 or so split at 800, you should have someone fast enough to run that somewhat comfortably. Not a whole lot of people in that category.

[LopenUupunut]

Kenenisa Bekele used Tariku as rabbit in his second 10K WR. Took it to 5K in 13:09.

Men's marathons sometimes have really high-quality rabbits. Off the top of my head, 58:48/2:04:28 man Sammy Kitwara has done a fair bit of pacing at both ends of his career, without being far off his peak form. (He ran 2:05 last year, less than two months after being the last pacemaker standing at the Berlin Marathon.)

[NotDutra5]

You both missed my point. There IS a time to be run, but it should not be ONLY the rabbit. The rabbit's job is to get the front of the pack there at that time. Running away from the pack does not do ANYthing. If they do not engage, it's the rabbit's job to fall back to the pack and then gradually up the pace to the desired time. If you are towing a m800 field to a 50.0 and they disengage after the first 100, then you drift back, reengage, and recalibrate after the 200 what is necessary to get to 50. If they won't respond again, at least you did the right thing in reengaging them. Just running a solo 50 does NOTHING.

Dude. Take a chill pill. Caps aside, if the 'bit be bein' paid by the time, he/she ain't droppin' back.

[Atticus]

Dude. Take a chill pill. Caps aside, if the 'bit be bein' paid by the time, he/she ain't droppin' back.

Sigh . . . still not my point at all.

[booond]

I hate rabbits in the 800M. They often get in the way.

[ExCoastRanger]

That’s the way we would like pacers to perform, but the people paying them may have a different job description.
Unfortunately it often appears the mission is to hit a mark, perhaps pre-negotiated among agents for one or two athletes in the field capable of running that fast, who may choose not to go that hard afterall come race time.

... The rabbit's job is to get the front of the pack there at that time. Running away from the pack does not do ANYthing. If they do not engage, it's the rabbit's job to fall back to the pack and then gradually up the pace to the desired time. If you are towing a m800 field to a 50.0 and they disengage after the first 100, then you drift back, reengage, and recalibrate...

[aaronk]

It'a all well and good that the rabbit follows the athlete's and/or meet director's orders, but please tell Tim Hutchins and other announcers to STOP calling a rabbit "useless", when all he/she is doing is following orders!!

If anyone is at fault here, it's the ATHLETE who refuses to follow the ASKED FOR pace the rabbit is setting!!

The ONLY time you blame the rabbit is if he/she goes out in 54 (instead of the asked for 57) for the 1st lap of an 800!
(An example only!)

I HATE it when a fast pace is asked for, then no one runs it!!

[Atticus]

It'a all well and good that the rabbit follows the athlete's and/or meet director's orders, but please tell Tim Hutchins and other announcers to STOP calling a rabbit "useless", when all he/she is doing is following orders!!
If anyone is at fault here, it's the ATHLETE who refuses to follow the ASKED FOR pace the rabbit is setting!!
The ONLY time you blame the rabbit is if he/she goes out in 54 (instead of the asked for 57) for the 1st lap of an 800!
(An example only!)
I HATE it when a fast pace is asked for, then no one runs it!!

The rabbit is indeed useless and not doing his/her job if the pack doesn't keep up. That is precisely the rabbit's job - to tow the field to a certain split, not just run a solo effort to a certain time. If s/he doesn't bring the field along, the rabbit has failed. You go back, re-engage and slowly (actually, acceleratingly) get back to the desired time. It may not happen, but running away from the pack is pointless.