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  • #31
    I don't know why people are acting as if athletes are victims here.

    If you are a bonafide citizen of a country and have NOT represented another country at any level internationally, and are not beholden to the organising body of the sport in your original country (i.e. they haven't been funding your development), then you are typically good to go. For example, it doesn't matter than Mo Farah was born in Somalia. He was raised in the UK, was a UK citizen, and chose to start running for the UK. Presumably, if he had Somali citizenship also, and decided from the outset of his career to represent Somalia (and UK Athletics had no obvious claim on him), then he'd have been good to go too (see Mondo Duplantis).

    If you START representing one country and then DECIDE to represent another, you have to sit out a period of Championship eligibility to do so until you become eligible. Makes sense to me.

    Quirky examples will arise (your country is dissolved e.g. Churandy Martina) that may warrant exceptions. Some countries will be hardasses (e.g. Denmark and Kipketer's nightmares).

    But, it's pretty clear that Jack Harvey is not Turkish!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by reggaeirie1234 View Post
      The whole thing is a non-issue being made into an issue by Europeans who are jealous that the talent is going to the Middle East / Asia and not Europe.
      ???
      Pichardo going to Portugal.
      Various other Cubans who have transferred to Spain.
      Numerous African distance runners going to Turkey (a country that is mainly in Asia but is affiliated to the European association).
      Various US-born athletes opting to use a British ancestral qualification
      etc etc

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      • #33
        Originally posted by AS View Post
        Some countries will be hardasses (e.g. Denmark and Kipketer's nightmares).

        But, it's pretty clear that Jack Harvey is not Turkish!
        That is, for me, the biggest problem with the previous system in that some countries are prepared to give an athlete a passport who has no real links with that country while others (e.g. Denmark, UK) do not grant one until you have resided there for many years.

        An interesting example is Yamile Aldama. Originally Cuban, she married and had a child with a British man and moved here. For several years, she was one of the best triple-jumpers in the world but couldn't get a British passport (not helped by her husband having got involved with some dodgy company just before they met and doing time). Rather randomly, Sudan offered her a passport and she competed for them for a while despite no links with the country. She finally got her GB qualification in time for her to compete at London 2012, by which time she was nearly 40.

        It appears that the IAAF are trying to avoid certain countries 'buying' athletes who have no birth, residential or ancestral link to that country.
        Last edited by Trickstat; 07-30-2018, 09:47 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
          Transfer of Allegiance is one of those Coe initiatives that lead me to believe that he's not the man to move the sport forward. This rule is a joke (but the previous rule was no better). Why? Because the penalty for transfer is longer than the penalty for a PED positive test. Now which one is greater threat to the sport?
          I get your point but the penalty only applies to championships not all competition.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
            the penalty for transfer is longer than the penalty for a PED positive test
            Not remotely comparable. Athletes waiting for transfer of allegiance are free to compete and make money in the sport, they just can't do so in competitions where you were a national vest.
            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
              It's the hurdles. Anybody including the best in the world can clip a hurdle or stutter-step and lose a second or more.
              Yes but the margin of error for a 47.02 400H runner is far greater than that for a 12.92 110H man or a 12.32 100H woman.

              Are there any recent examples of an athlete in a US trials 400H final who lead as they approached the 9th hurdle who missed the team because of hurdling mishaps?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Powell View Post
                Not remotely comparable. Athletes waiting for transfer of allegiance are free to compete and make money in the sport, they just can't do so in competitions where you were a national vest.
                Extremely comparable as the World Championships and the Olympics are responsible for the greatest value in actual "worth" on the athletics circuit and in the sport. Top of my head...from 2008-2017 Usain Bolt ran as many races -if not more- at Worlds/Olympics as he did on the international athletics circuit during that time. And the argument for not allowing bans longer than 2 (4?) years is some version of restraint of trade. It's about money.

                I'll call it what it is: a superiority complex. It's this monarchical, Schengen-starred, clown car swerving through organized humanity. Are there elements of racism, and islamophobia? Absolutely. Israel and Australia have added athletes and have been at the other end of the UK/Denmark spectrum (given as supporting evidence) but there was never the uproar.

                Lastly, there are some horrendously managed national federations. They may have great athletes, but they have incompetent officials, who have votes, and to whom the IAAF Council, etc are beholden. Some countries deserve to have their athletes defect/transfer and the athletics world should not be punished for it.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by crymeariver
                  Lastly, there are some horrendously managed national federations. They may have great athletes, but they have incompetent officials, who have votes, and to whom the IAAF Council, etc are beholden. Some countries deserve to have their athletes defect/transfer and the athletics world should not be punished for it.
                  This is true. It does seem that the Nigerian Federation in particular have driven a lot of athletes away over the years. If they had a good Federation they might even tempt away some of the many British sprinters who would be eligible through their parentage!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
                    Extremely comparable as the World Championships and the Olympics are responsible for the greatest value in actual "worth" on the athletics circuit and in the sport. Top of my head...from 2008-2017 Usain Bolt ran as many races -if not more- at Worlds/Olympics as he did on the international athletics circuit during that time.
                    Bolt is an exception. And of course OG/ WCh are the most important competitions, but if you're good enough, you can do well, competitively and financially, without them. Yamile Aldama was no. 1 in the world while unable to represent any country. It is not remotely the same as not being able to compete at all, as in the case of a drug ban.
                    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Powell View Post
                      Bolt is an exception. And of course OG/ WCh are the most important competitions, but if you're good enough, you can do well, competitively and financially, without them. Yamile Aldama was no. 1 in the world while unable to represent any country. It is not remotely the same as not being able to compete at all, as in the case of a drug ban.
                      You're correct: Bolt is an exception, but not a remote exception as top athletes (sprinters) are not competing as much. And the response proves the point. An athlete like Aldama would accept a passport to even Sudan JUST for the opportunity to compete at the international brand building games.

                      A PED-banned athlete might only miss ONE international games while someone transferring allegiance will miss a minimum of two.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
                        Yes but the margin of error for a 47.02 400H runner is far greater than that for a 12.92 110H man or a 12.32 100H woman.
                        He's not a consistent 47-low man like Samba. He's done 47-low just once in his life, and 47-high one time. Until he has that consistency, he could be in just 48+ shape on any given day, which doesn't leave much room for error.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
                          A PED-banned athlete might only miss ONE international games while someone transferring allegiance will miss a minimum of two.
                          Unless the 3-year waiting period is retroactive to the acquisition of citizenship and/or residence, or the transfer application is held confidential until approved so the athletes can continue to represent the original country while waiting out the 3 years.

                          Until the specific details of the transfer rules are released, we don't know what the effects will be.
                          Last edited by 18.99s; 07-30-2018, 11:17 AM.

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                          • #43
                            To come right up to date, Ireland have selected Leon Reid for the European Champs in the hope that he is cleared to run for them. Both his late biological mother* and his adoptive mother are from Ireland but he competed for GB at junior level. He may have got the 3rd slot in the GB team at 200m if he'd opted to stick with GB.

                            https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/45003656

                            *His mother was from Belfast, which is in the UK, but the terms of the Good Friday peace treaty allows sportspeople from Northern Ireland to compete for either GB or Ireland.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
                              Are there any recent examples of an athlete in a US trials 400H final who lead as they approached the 9th hurdle who missed the team because of hurdling mishaps?
                              I think Johnny Dutch in either 2015 or 2016 led by a wide margin and hit hurdle 10 ending up 4th in the final.

                              But I agree you you and others who think it makes no sense for Benjamin to represent Antigua.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ATK View Post
                                I think Johnny Dutch in either 2015 or 2016 led by a wide margin and hit hurdle 10 ending up 4th in the final.

                                But I agree you you and others who think it makes no sense for Benjamin to represent Antigua.
                                Of course, the hurdling mishap could happen in the major champs itself. If it does, and he is running for the US, he may well have the relay as some form of consolation.

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