Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

IAAF acts on Transfer of Allegiance

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • uakari
    replied
    Originally posted by reggaeirie1234 View Post
    People have to eat. End of story.
    says who? your majesty?

    you just posted one of the dumbest posts ever in the history of these boards.

    Leave a comment:


  • bobguild76
    replied
    Originally posted by uakari View Post
    many of the athletes representing bahrain and qatar have never lived in those countries and had never any link to them except for where the paychecks came from. and until recently, they made them take up arabic names. remember all the kenyans who couldn't pronounce or even remember what their new names were?
    I wonder if Saif Shaheen's friends in Eldoret call him Saif or Stephen, now that he is retired.

    Leave a comment:


  • crymeariver
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
    Nobody's arguing against countries' rights to grant and revoke citizenship and passports. The debate is over whether the rest of the world should have to recognize those in every context outside of the country that granted them.

    Similarly, just as countries have the right to define marriages that take place within their own borders, that doesn't mean other countries have to recognize every marriage of every country (such as those with 4 wives or preteen brides).
    My argument is that it's more about ugly politics than about sport.

    I actually agree that it's a very thorny issue. The 96th post in this thread by @TN1965 is of a case involving a German/Guatemalan/Swiss man in 1955... and the dissenters who were far more learned in the law and the details of that case than i will ever be also questioned whether or not other bodies had the right to challenge how much of a citizen someone is.
    one of the dissenting opinions
    ...But if a State has in principle the exclusive competence to regulate questions of nationality by its own legislation without interference by other States, it is difficult to see on what ground its own interpretation and application of this same legislation could be open to challenge by other States. Such a challenge is possible in theory on the ground that the legislation or the application thereof is inconsistent with international law ; but the question now under consideration is only whether the author- ities of Liechtenstein have applied their local law in a manner consistent with the provisions of that local law.

    I agree with the legal dissenters of that case and believe citizenship is not the purview of the IAAF.

    Question: if Qatar and Bahrain gave the athletes FULL and PERMANENT Qatari and Bahraini citizenship with their passports would it change your views any?
    Last edited by crymeariver; 08-10-2018, 01:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
    I also have a problem with the "rental" passports. I do. But I have to allow that a country has that right (to rent passports), just as countries have the right to revoke passports, however disgusting it might be to me (see: KANTER, Enes [TUR]).
    Nobody's arguing against countries' rights to grant and revoke citizenship and passports. The debate is over whether the rest of the world should have to recognize those in every context outside of the country that granted them.

    Similarly, just as countries have the right to define marriages that take place within their own borders, that doesn't mean other countries have to recognize every marriage of every country (such as those with 4 wives or preteen brides).

    Leave a comment:


  • crymeariver
    replied
    Originally posted by Powell View Post
    And how exactly are they going to do that?
    I never said it was easy or that I knew the right answer. I just think that some of these national federations are HORRIBLE and they have no right to the athletes unlucky enough to be born under their aegis.

    But more of an answer? Permanently decertify national federations if the IAAF find that athletes have not received permanent citizenship.

    Leave a comment:


  • crymeariver
    replied
    Originally posted by tandfman View Post
    Age.
    Again, your point is valid. But parents have always been responsible for making binding decisions for minors.

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
    The only thing the IAAF should be doing, imo, is making sure that it's full permanent citizenship.
    And how exactly are they going to do that?

    Leave a comment:


  • crymeariver
    replied
    Originally posted by Pego View Post
    People having (or being eligible for) dual citizenship certainly may create issues you mention. That is not what bothers me. People that marry into a different country don't bother me either. Nor am I bothered by emigrants for political or economic reasons that adopt their new country.
    It is the rental "citizenships" bestowed on athletes for one and only purpose - temporary representation that I (and many posters here) find unappetizing. People that never (or hardly ever) set a foot in the country whose passport they now hold and who, in all likelyhood wil revert their citizenship to their original homeland after their career is over (sometime even right after the championship's conclusion).
    I also have a problem with the "rental" passports. I do. But I have to allow that a country has that right (to rent passports), just as countries have the right to revoke passports, however disgusting it might be to me (see: KANTER, Enes [TUR]). I also allow that people have the right to live/work where they choose (think expats).

    The British with their "plastic" talk is disgusting. A rule like the one the IAAF is finishing the details on leads to more nationalism and xenophobia and division, and the world seems to be headed in that direction a bit too fast for my taste at the moment (see OZIL, Mesut).

    The only thing the IAAF should be doing, imo, is making sure that it's full permanent citizenship.

    Leave a comment:


  • crymeariver
    replied
    Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
    You're the one who brought the US into this, when you brought up marrying to become American.


    I wouldn't have disagreed with the IAAF if they made her wait a few years to represent Jamaica.


    Different countries have different criteria for establishing marriages, but that doesn't mean every other country is obligated to automatically recognize every marriage for immigration or other purposes. Nothing wrong with most countries not recognizing polygamy or marriages to 12-year-old brides.

    Each country has sovereign authority over how it establishes citizenship and marriages, but that authority doesn't and shouldn't extend over other countries and international organizations.
    You are wrong ... but I may have something to do with why you are wrong: my initial post may not have conveyed my point as well as I meant it to, which ultimately makes it my fault.

    This is what I initially wrote.

    Originally posted by crymeariver
    2. Would your opinion be different if they married the athletes to their citizens (because you're fooling yourself if you believe that people haven't married Americans to "become American").
    The "they" is Qatar and Bahrain. And I've reiterated that, because you misunderstood it the first time (my fault!). But, you don't want to write about that because you're back to writing about the US as if I can't see you with sweated brow, in straw filled room, with a template of a man - hard at work.

    So again. The "they" is Qatar and Bahrain.

    You're welcome.
    Last edited by crymeariver; 08-10-2018, 12:02 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • AS
    replied
    Spain's Bruno Hortelano (10.06, 20.04, 44.69) was born in Australia (his dad was doing a PhD down here), and raised in Canada. Australia would have been delighted to claim him...

    Leave a comment:


  • reggaeirie1234
    replied
    People have to eat. End of story.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pego
    replied
    Originally posted by uakari View Post
    many of the athletes representing bahrain and qatar have never lived in those countries and had never any link to them except for where the paychecks came from. and until recently, they made them take up arabic names. remember all the kenyans who couldn't pronounce or even remember what their new names were?
    Welcome back .

    Leave a comment:


  • uakari
    replied
    many of the athletes representing bahrain and qatar have never lived in those countries and had never any link to them except for where the paychecks came from. and until recently, they made them take up arabic names. remember all the kenyans who couldn't pronounce or even remember what their new names were?

    Leave a comment:


  • Pego
    replied
    Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
    Considered because of age or agency? Can Chinese athletes argue that they didn't have a choice to avoid a ban? Russians? North Koreans?

    Your question is valid and i have no idea which party made the decision to compete for Antigua, but it's not like Caribbean athletes have not previously exploited the "better" conditions of the US to transfer.

    Kareem Streete Thompson, Competed for Cayman Islands and then for the United States and then again for Cayman Islands.

    Sandra Farmer Patrick set an American Junior record at 14 (according to wikipedia...) she arrived in the US at age 11. She was 4th at the '87 Rome Championships, competing for Jamaica...and then was eligible to compete for the US in '88. One year later. And, when she didn't make the team...tried to go back to Jamaica.

    Christian Taylor has mentioned that he might one day compete for the country of his parents.

    (apologies in advance...I know that you know all of this; you're probably the most traveled person on this message board and you were probably there)
    People having (or being eligible for) dual citizenship certainly may create issues you mention. That is not what bothers me. People that marry into a different country don't bother me either. Nor am I bothered by emigrants for political or economic reasons that adopt their new country.
    It is the rental "citizenships" bestowed on athletes for one and only purpose - temporary representation that I (and many posters here) find unappetizing. People that never (or hardly ever) set a foot in the country whose passport they now hold and who, in all likelyhood wil revert their citizenship to their original homeland after their career is over (sometime even right after the championship's conclusion).

    Leave a comment:


  • 18.99s
    replied
    Originally posted by crymeariver View Post
    the "they" would be Qatar and Bahrain...it's not always just about the US and some of you need to think beyond the US and what's required to get citizenship in the US (or the UK). I thought it was obvious I was writing about Qatar and Bahrain...but again, it doesn't matter. What matters is whatever that government defines citizenship as.
    You're the one who brought the US into this, when you brought up marrying to become American.

    Look at Jamaica. former East German Yvonne Graham (married Winthrop Graham) received nearly instant citizenship.
    I wouldn't have disagreed with the IAAF if they made her wait a few years to represent Jamaica.

    Different countries have different ways of awarding citizenship and it shouldn't be left to the US or the EU to determine whose citizenship is legitimate and whose is not.
    Different countries have different criteria for establishing marriages, but that doesn't mean every other country is obligated to automatically recognize every marriage for immigration or other purposes. Nothing wrong with most countries not recognizing polygamy or marriages to 12-year-old brides.

    Each country has sovereign authority over how it establishes citizenship and marriages, but that authority doesn't and shouldn't extend over other countries and international organizations.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X