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  • Ramblin'

    Keep an eye junior speedster Fred Worstein at the Cal HS champs.

    Is Ato done as a genuine contender?

    Is Kedaris not the weirdest champion sprinter ever?

    Montgomery needs to work on his "I'm the world's fastest human" skills.

    Mo needs to get that record back so we can have someone who looks the part.

    Is Gatlin the next sub 19.80 sprinter?

    What is Frankie thinking?

    Morne Nagel ...hahahahaha!!!!!

    Lionel Larry next great Cal sprinter.

    I always feel sorry for Jim Golliday,Hal Davis,Mozel Ellerbe and Eulace Peacock....what might have been?

    MJ ruined the 200!

    Jimmy Hines vs Charlie Green......when men were men!

    Tommie Smith in 68 blows Borzov away!

    Sorry Stanley Floyd.

    TCU can put 4 sub10.00 sprinters on an Alumni 4x1....wow! Hard to believe USC has never had a sub10.00 sprinter.

    LSU has never had a great sprinter!

    Lloyd LaBeach all but forgotten.

    First name SEC speedster.....Cliff Outlin 9.3 Auburn.

    Francis Baldwin 9.2?????

    ACU had an all white WR 4x1/4x2 relay team in the 50's?

    nuff!

  • #2
    Re: Ramblin'

    Hey, Brutal... what if Tommie Smith (circa 1966-68) had run some 800m races. Could he have been the first Juantorena? I saw Tommie run some astounding 400's and never look a bit tired...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ramblin'

      I really can't say to be honest. I would guess he'd be competitive to some degree not sure what degree however.

      The first time I saw Tommie was in Fresno around 66. He was down a solid 10 meters to New Mexico's Bernie Rivers a 9.3 /20.4 type on the anchor of a 4x2 relay. Yep you guessed it!

      What an amazing athlete!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ramblin'

        Bill Woodhouse ran a 9.1w and a 9.3. Why wasn't that 9.3 accepted as a WR? Not trivia cause I don't know.

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        • #5
          Re: Ramblin'

          I know Lee Evans ran an 800 or two and Smith was better in the 400 than he was. I can see your point and can't disagree, I just don't have anything to go by other than knowing he was a fantastic runner.

          I work with a guy who ran on the same 4x1 team as Smith in high school in Lemoore a little town about 40 miles from here.

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          • #6
            Re: Ramblin'

            The aerobic element of the 800 is constantly underestimated. Tommie Smith was fantastic, but that doesn't mean he possessed the potential to develop the VO2Max, lactate tolerance, circulatory system or many other factors that go into making a top 800 runner. He might have, but we'll never know. Some of it boils down to muscle fiber, and if a guy is overloaded in the fast twitch area (the fast twitch fibers dedicated to speed rather than strength, obviously), they are probably "underfunded" in the slow twitch area. Juantorena is a big exception, but many runners slower at the 400 have run faster in the 800. Borzakovskiy looks a good bet to lower the record to a more "acceptable level" if he or his coach can their head on straight. He has speed, and good strength, apparently.

            Then again, maybe the record is right where it's supposed to be. It's a tough event to call, you have 400/800 types, 800/1500 types, freaks like Aouita have scored ...

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            • #7
              Re: Ramblin'

              Everett ran 44 for the 400, and couldn't crack 1:43 in the 800. Borzo the bozo runs 45 out of the blocks, and looks like he can run 1:40. Maybe we need some distance runners with 45/46 speed like Coe, rather than 44 sec. 400 guys. Most sprinter types don't have the physical make up to run farther than 400 or 600 really, really fast. The guy mentioned Juantorena. 44.2 in the 1 lapper, mid 1:43's at his best in the 800. Best of his time, but no Coe or Kipketer.

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              • #8
                Re: Ramblin'

                Here is a factor to consider: Tommie had very quick turn-over combined with very long legs and a huge stride length and, for his ht., he weighed very little. He was flat out skinny and would have had less wt. to haul around a two lapper than any other comparable sprinter. For example, it is impossible to imagine MJ running a very fast 800. Was Tommie Smith the fastest, skinniest sprinter ever?

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                • #9
                  Re: Ramblin'

                  I'll jump in for the heck of it. Interesting topic. Carl Lewis always looked very skinny to me. I never saw Tommie Smith in person when he was competing, so I can't say. I did see Juanto in person when he was in LA at the Pepsi meet in 79. He was skinny. There's no way he was as heavy as he was listed. I think it was claimed he weighed 185 - 190. He looked about 165 in person, and his stride looked to be over 9 feet. Even though he lost the 400 that day, I was amazed at how fast his turnover was in relation to his stride length. I had never seen anything like it. Is that how Smith looked in a 400?

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                  • #10
                    Re: Ramblin'

                    Interesting. Fred Worstein didn't make it out of the prelims in either the 100 or 100!!! Ouch!!!

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                    • #11
                      Re: Ramblin'

                      Two left thumbs. That is 100 and 200 for Fred.

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                      • #12
                        New T&FN feature?

                        Something like Brutal's post would be neat in T&FN on a monthly basis. Reminds of Larry King's old column in USA Today. (He may still do it -- not sure.) Great stuff.

                        BTW, not sure if Richmond Flowers qualifies as a true speedster, but he was very fast and beat gold medalist Willie Davenport in the high hurdles twice in two consecutive days -- once at Davenport's home track in Louisiana and the next day at Tom Black Track in Knoxville. That's the story I've heard anyhow. I guess an injury kept him out of the Olympics in '68. :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Ramblin'

                          jhc68

                          Tommie was "slender" not sure "skinny" is the word. I've seen him in person twice and never thought of him as skinny.

                          Here are a few fast "skinny" sprinters......

                          Willie Deckard....who was so skinny his body just couldn't handle the stress. Ran a 9.2/20.2....poof!

                          Del Meriweather......same as Deckard he kept breaking down.

                          Cliff Wiley....a breat multi faceted sprinter out of U of Kansas ran 9.3/20.3/sub 45.00

                          Percy Williams....double Oly champ in 1928 out of Canada. 126 pounds!!!

                          Herb Washington.....was smallish not sure if "skinny" applies however. Great great indoor speedster. Fastest start I've ever seen!

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                          • #14
                            Re: New T&FN feature?

                            He ran 13.3/9.4 while at Tennessee. Also played in the NFL for a few years.

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                            • #15
                              Re: New T&FN feature?

                              Yeah, skinny might be the wrong word. T.Smith in top form had a long, wide frame and certainly did not look weak, but he didn't carry a lot of poundage. He would have looked very tall and thin standing next to M.J. or even Juantorena. I saw Tommie compete many times and I also watched Juantorena in Montreal. No doubt the Cubano would have won at arm wrestling. T.S. was built a lot more like Johnny Gray than either Johnson or Juanto. I remember vividly a relay leg that Tommie Smith ran at the LA Coliseum in an international meet in 1967. He gobbled up gigantic amounts of real estate with each stride on route to a smooth, effortless looking lap that was reported to be in the mid 43 second range. That day, anyway, he appeared to have been capable of moving up in distance.

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