decathlon for women? [split]

[TN1965]

It's completely irrelevant for which mark in the different events you will get 1.000 points.

This is true as far as it goes. But if the point spreads are bigger in one event than in another, then an athlete who is better in the event with bigger point spreads benefits from that.

[Powell]

This is true as far as it goes. But if the point spreads are bigger in one event than in another, then an athlete who is better in the event with bigger point spreads benefits from that.

And the spreads are the largest in HJ and JT. Those are the two events where you can gain the most points over the field.

[Wiederganger]

And the spreads are the largest in HJ and JT. Those are the two events where you can gain the most points over the field.

The problem is the scoring tables & scales within the events are outdated. The points are based on event standards from many years ago when doping was more prevalent and the top throwers in the specialist events were throwing much further. The tables need totally revising to make the distribution of points more realistic to today and to ensure power/strength athletes get rewarded as much as sprinter types.

The other issue is with the choice of throws in the women's heptathlon and only having one 'heavy throw'. Had it been the DT and SP, instead of JT and SP, it would even out a bit. Part of the reason why we need the women to move over to the decathlon asap, where it is a more even spread of speed v strength.

[ralmcg]

The problem is the scoring tables & scales within the events are outdated. The points are based on event standards from many years ago when doping was more prevalent and the top throwers in the specialist events were throwing much further. The tables need totally revising to make the distribution of points more realistic to today and to ensure power/strength athletes get rewarded as much as sprinter types.

The other issue is with the choice of throws in the women's heptathlon and only having one 'heavy throw'. Had it been the DT and SP, instead of JT and SP, it would even out a bit. Part of the reason why we need the women to move over to the decathlon asap, where it is a more even spread of speed v strength.

I agree that women should move over to the decathlon. The question is could the heptathletes do pole vault and discus throw, as well as more and longer races? Maybe I should also say would the heptathletes do the extra events?

[tandfman]

I agree that women should move over to the decathlon. The question is could the heptathletes do pole vault and discus throw, as well as more and longer races? Maybe I should also say would the heptathletes do the extra events?

They would do them if they had to. But most of the existing heptathletes, and many of their coaches, don't really want to learn to pole vault. And there's also some resistance to the other new events. Were it not for the opposition of these athletes and coaches, I think it's very possible that the dec would have replaced the hept by now. This resistance to change has stood in the way of what I and many others believe is a logical next step for the women's multis.

[gh]

I wouldn't call it anything as simple as "resistance to change."

it's resistance to something that would drive, IMHO, many current people out of the sport.

[tandfman]

It could. But couldn't it also attract others in the sport to the multis?

[ralmcg]

What is this resistance to change from heptathlon to decathlon saying to young girls especially? Is it that they are incapable of doing the pole vault especially, alongside other events? I know that the present heptathletes don't believe that there is a negative message in this resistance to change but that could be read as women too fragile to do these things. I know that women can, look at the 2019 Women's Decathlon National Championship.

Related to the GOAT issue, would Jackie Joyner-Kersey, Carolina Kluft, and Jessica Ennis-Hill be ranked higher in athletic esteem if they did the decathlon instead of the heptathlon? I would think so since the decathlon has longer races and more technical field events.

[18.99s]

What is this resistance to change from heptathlon to decathlon saying to young girls especially? Is it that they are incapable of doing the pole vault especially, alongside other events?

Incapable is the wrong word; inaccessible is the relevant problem.

Don't forget that Title IX is unique to the US. Whether it's due to culture, funding, or anything else, women and girls in nearly all other countries face greater obstacles to development in sports than men and boys, and the pole vault is the least accessible event in track & field.

It's not just the cost of the poles; there's also the logistical difficulties in transporting them to and from meets, and the specialized coaching required.

When the women's pole vault was added to the Olympic program, it created additional opportunities for women because it didn't replace anything. But the women's decathlon would replace the heptathlon, and if it includes the pole vault it would result in a net decrease in global participation and opportunities for women in the sport.

[ralmcg]

I would like to say that I would love women to compete in the decathlon, if only for them to do different events, especially those not done in the heptathlon. If accessibility to pole vault equipment and coaching is the only thing holding women back from being decathletes then resources should be used to improve that. Of course it's easier to say that than to actually find money and personnel especially to do what I am suggesting. But as people say if there is a will there is a way.

But I think there are cultural barriers to women and girls competing in track and field, but they would apply to most, if not all, events, not just the pole vault.

[18.99s]

What kind of multi-event would you consider that is (1) accessible to all track-and-field athletes and (2) are equal to both men and women (i.e. no shorter race distances for women as compared to men)? In other words, if started over, what would be the number of events and the events themselves in this new multi-event.

One-day heptathlon, consisting of 100m, long jump, high jump, shot put, discus, 400m hurdles, 1500m (not necessarily in that order). 3 events in the morning, 4 in the evening.

The one-day format would make it much more feasible to include in one-day meets (although the morning session may often have to be without an audience), providing more opportunities to earn a living as a professional.

[18.99s]

But I think there are cultural barriers to women and girls competing in track and field, but they would apply to most, if not all, events, not just the pole vault.

Those barriers exist around the world for women in all events, but the pole vault adds spikes and rolls of barbed wire on the top of the barriers.

[gh]

decathlon for women? [split]

this split off from an Historical thread on women's GOAT, which digressed.

We've had this discussion in the past, but let's give it another go.

[Atticus]

Those barriers exist around the world for women in all events, but the pole vault adds spikes and rolls of barbed wire on the top of the barriers.

Not in the USA, at all, that I've seen ever since Stacy D.

[Conor Dary]

If you are talking about barriers obviously you are not talking about the US....