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  • #61
    Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
    No they are leading exponents at the heptathlon who don't want to have that replaced by a decathlon that features events that they may not have ever even attempted before.

    I do think the right approach is for an announcement to be made at some stage that the decathlon will replace the heptathlon at a particular Worlds and subsequent Olympics some 6 to 10 years from the announcement.
    I do think that the heptathlon should be replaced by the decathlon, preferably by the 2028 Olympics. If you are right about the timing the governing bodies, especially the IAAF, should make the decision sooner, like in 2020, or else the decision will be pushed back farther and farther, making the transition more difficult if not impossible.

    As for the heptathletes not wanting to do more events I say they are not owed multi-events with events that they prefer to do. Multi-event men do have to pole vault, for instance, or not be eligible to do combined events at championship level. If anything the heptathletes should welcome the chance to do more events and longer races since it would be a new challenge for them.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
      I do think that the heptathlon should be replaced by the decathlon, preferably by the 2028 Olympics. If you are right about the timing the governing bodies, especially the IAAF, should make the decision sooner, like in 2020, or else the decision will be pushed back farther and farther, making the transition more difficult if not impossible.

      As for the heptathletes not wanting to do more events I say they are not owed multi-events with events that they prefer to do. Multi-event men do have to pole vault, for instance, or not be eligible to do combined events at championship level. If anything the heptathletes should welcome the chance to do more events and longer races since it would be a new challenge for them.
      Who's to decide what multi-events will be available? Forum potatoes? Are there polls that show that people will preferably watch Dec over Hep? Or is it to be dictated by some random people? And if so, why complaining about the current situation?

      By the way, 20-athlon is even more challenging and also exists, although not officially. 😉

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nico21 View Post
        Who's to decide what multi-events will be available? Forum potatoes? Are there polls that show that people will preferably watch Dec over Hep? Or is it to be dictated by some random people? And if so, why complaining about the current situation?

        By the way, 20-athlon is even more challenging and also exists, although not officially. ��
        In regards to why I am complaining about the current situation is (1) the multi-events aren't equal for men and women on the face of it (7 events for women, with shorter races, 10 events for men) and (2) my selfish reason, which is I like to see women multi-eventers pole vault.

        Here's a question for you, nico21. Would you, in the interest of equality, have the men compete in the heptathlon only, no decathlon?

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        • #64
          I would much rather see the men go to the heptathlon, same events as the women currently do.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
            Multi-event men do have to pole vault, for instance, or not be eligible to do combined events at championship level.
            Yes, and that's one reason why many don't train for the decathlon, and choose other events or other sports altogether.

            But men around the world have have greater access to the pole vault than women, and much greater access to other sporting opportunities both at the amateur and professional level, so the pole vault's inclusion in the men's decathlon doesn't harm men nearly as much as it would harm women.
            If anything the heptathletes should welcome the chance to do more events and longer races since it would be a new challenge for them.
            Why should they welcome something that is so difficult to access? Female multi-eventers get paid less than men, and you want to dig into their pockets even more by adding the most expensive event to their lineup?

            Did you know that in Jamaica, there is still no pole vault for girls in high school? Jamaica doesn't even have the pole vault listed in their women's U20 records. And the women's adult record is only 3.40m, set over 20 years ago by a woman living in the UK.

            Before the decathlon is going to replace the women's heptathlon, there needs to be serious progress around the world with access to the pole vault for girls and young women. Or make the women's decathlon include something else instead of the pole vault, like the 400m hurdles or steeplechase.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
              In regards to why I am complaining about the current situation is (1) the multi-events aren't equal for men and women on the face of it (7 events for women, with shorter races, 10 events for men) and (2) my selfish reason, which is I like to see women multi-eventers pole vault.

              Here's a question for you, nico21. Would you, in the interest of equality, have the men compete in the heptathlon only, no decathlon?
              I just don't have the same view on "equality". It's never something forced upon the ones who "benefits" and it doesn't have anything to do with symbolics (eg. 2-sets vs 3-sets), especially if it is enforced by people that are not directly concerned.

              If you ask me what I'd done at the time of the introduction of both events, I surely would have proposed the same for men and women.
              But what is done is done and heptathlon has gone its own way.
              Additionally, I don't see any inherent superiority to having 10 events instead of 7, except for the number itself, but even that is overrated.
              If you really want more versatility, just include a 10000m or a half-marathon instead of a third jump/throw/sprint event. It will be shorter and easier to follow on tv than a decathlon pole-vault competition during major champs, when multi-event coverage gets crippled.

              P.S.: that marathon thing was ironic 🙂

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              • #67
                Originally posted by 18.99s View Post
                Yes, and that's one reason why many don't train for the decathlon, and choose other events or other sports altogether.

                But men around the world have have greater access to the pole vault than women, and much greater access to other sporting opportunities both at the amateur and professional level, so the pole vault's inclusion in the men's decathlon doesn't harm men nearly as much as it would harm women.

                Why should they welcome something that is so difficult to access? Female multi-eventers get paid less than men, and you want to dig into their pockets even more by adding the most expensive event to their lineup?

                Did you know that in Jamaica, there is still no pole vault for girls in high school? Jamaica doesn't even have the pole vault listed in their women's U20 records. And the women's adult record is only 3.40m, set over 20 years ago by a woman living in the UK.

                Before the decathlon is going to replace the women's heptathlon, there needs to be serious progress around the world with access to the pole vault for girls and young women. Or make the women's decathlon include something else instead of the pole vault, like the 400m hurdles or steeplechase.
                I do agree with you in that there should be more access to the pole vault for women and girls, and also for men and boys that don't have access to the pole vault.

                I want to ask whose fault is it that women have less access to the pole vault than men, especially in places like Jamaica? My guess it would be men who don't want to share their pole vault equipment with women. The pole vault not being more available for women could be solved, in part, if there was more will on the part of athletic associations, clubs, etc.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by nico21 View Post
                  I just don't have the same view on "equality". It's never something forced upon the ones who "benefits" and it doesn't have anything to do with symbolics (eg. 2-sets vs 3-sets), especially if it is enforced by people that are not directly concerned.

                  If you ask me what I'd done at the time of the introduction of both events, I surely would have proposed the same for men and women.
                  But what is done is done and heptathlon has gone its own way.
                  Additionally, I don't see any inherent superiority to having 10 events instead of 7, except for the number itself, but even that is overrated.
                  If you really want more versatility, just include a 10000m or a half-marathon instead of a third jump/throw/sprint event. It will be shorter and easier to follow on tv than a decathlon pole-vault competition during major champs, when multi-event coverage gets crippled.

                  P.S.: that marathon thing was ironic ��
                  So in other words since women did not have decathlon in the past, they are stuck with the heptathlon as their "gender appropriate "multi-event. You do know that there are some women who do compete in the decathlon. Would you deny them the opportunity to do it at a major championships?

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                  • #69
                    I will say that most, if not all, of the respondents of this thread would like to see women's decathlon be contested as much as possible. Some, like 18.99s, would like to see progress in access to women's pole vault, for instance, before the women's decathlon can be considered for major championships and the Olympics. I can understand that, but I would like to see this tackled sooner rather than later so that the women's decathlon can be contested sooner rather than later.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
                      I want to ask whose fault is it that women have less access to the pole vault than men, especially in places like Jamaica? My guess it would be men who don't want to share their pole vault equipment with women. The pole vault not being more available for women could be solved, in part, if there was more will on the part of athletic associations, clubs, etc.
                      What equipment would they have to share? The vault pit sits empty most of the time so that should not be a problem with sharing. They would not be using the same poles; is it the shortage of chalk?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
                        What equipment would they have to share? The vault pit sits empty most of the time so that should not be a problem with sharing. They would not be using the same poles; is it the shortage of chalk?
                        My point is that the mostly male administrators and coaches don't seem willing to let girls and women even try to pole vault and just reserve it for the boys and men, at least in some track-and-field programs around the world.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
                          My point is that the mostly male administrators and coaches don't seem willing to let girls and women even try to pole vault and just reserve it for the boys and men, at least in some track-and-field programs around the world.
                          Maybe so, but nothing in that comment is specific to the pole vault. Is it much greater in the vault; if not why the comment here?

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
                            My point is that the mostly male administrators and coaches don't seem willing to let girls and women even try to pole vault and just reserve it for the boys and men, at least in some track-and-field programs around the world.
                            There could be cultural barriers but pole vaulting takes a great deal of physical strength head to toe. Id imagine that finding girls that can start at the PV as 16 year olds is no small feat, it is hard enough to find boys that can start down that path at 16y. We had plenty of fast boys, we had plenty of agile and strong boys but being able to run as fast as you can and have the mental wherewithal to catapult yourself up off the ground is no small task. Next to coaching football QBs, training the PV must be one of the hardest jobs in coaching.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ralmcg View Post
                              My point is that the mostly male administrators and coaches don't seem willing to let girls and women even try to pole vault and just reserve it for the boys and men, at least in some track-and-field programs around the world.
                              I've never seen any by-event numbers, but my gut feeling (among pre-collegiate girls) is that there are more PV adepts than any other field event. They get plenty of opportunities to try, what with people like Stacy Dragila and Becca out there beating the drum.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by gh View Post
                                I've never seen any by-event numbers, but my gut feeling (among pre-collegiate girls) is that there are more PV adepts than any other field event.
                                I don't think that's the case for most countries outside the US and Western Europe.

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