4x1 Wisdom

[Atticus]

I read the home-page-linked article of this subject and was amused to see that what was termed 'conventional wisdom' has been discredited here for along time. We didn't need the new accelaraion rules to realize that your fastest runner can do the most damage in the second spot.
I would say that conventional wisdom is actually that you're looking for

1. A great starter ON THE CURVE
2. best overall top speed
3. someone who can keep their top speed on the curve
4. your most 'competitive' runner; will respond positively to the pressures of anchor.

and . . . sometimes your 2nd or 3rd fastest sprinter is not the right person to put on your team at all. Relay running takes presence of mind and some sprinters don't have it.

The 'art' of being a coach is that sometimes it's only one person that embodies al those traits, so you have to make do with what you have, but even then, there IS a best order.

[DoubleRBar]

I think the U.S. got it right in Doha. Once Gatlin retires, I don't see a problem in replacing him, but I would definitely keep Coleman on the first leg and Lyles on the anchor leg. If they can practice together enough, then I believe they will break the world record.

[The Klingon]

I think the U.S. got it right in Doha. Once Gatlin retires, I don't see a problem in replacing him, but I would definitely keep Coleman on the first leg and Lyles on the anchor leg. If they can practice together enough, then I believe they will break the world record.

I must agree with you on this.

[beebee]

I think the U.S. got it right in Doha. Once Gatlin retires, I don't see a problem in replacing him, but I would definitely keep Coleman on the first leg and Lyles on the anchor leg. If they can practice together enough, then I believe they will break the world record.

Agreed...Coleman and Lyles for years to come.

[26mi235]

Lyles on second also makes sense, giving him the longest leg and building a big lead, which can be intimidating. Also important is the handoffs - who to have for two (1/4) and who to have for two (2/3).

[The Klingon]

Lyles on second also makes sense, giving him the longest leg and building a big lead, which can be intimidating. Also important is the handoffs - who to have for two (1/4) and who to have for two (2/3).

If the U.S. is behind, for whatever reason, I really would like to have Lyles on anchor. But that's just me.

[26mi235]

If the U.S. is behind, for whatever reason, I really would like to have Lyles on anchor. But that's just me.

If the US is behind with Coleman to Lyles then bad stuff has happened. It seems highly unlikely to occur in a race going somewhat smoothly. Coleman could gain 2 meters and Lyles another 2 meters, and that is assuming the top other two legs are on the same team. But if there is going to be a semi-super anchor running down, say, Ronnie Baker, then that guy is not in the first two, and the gap is larger. This notion that you can same a lot by having someone some where and not give up the advantage elsewhere is odd, especially where, in the case of having Lyles on second, he gets to run further and is almost certainly pulls further away as his 200 ability gives him greater speed over the 90-120 meter range at the end of the zone.

[jjimbojames]

I’d agree with that. The next best (GBR) will hopefully have a healthy Prescod next year, but his lack of relay practice would see him on 4th. Ujah-Hughes-Gemili are likely the best first three as things stand, but unlikely to put enough pressure on. NMB at his best should be in the line-up, but the issue is where you put legs, as neither Gemili or NMB are super starters, and Hughes/Prescod would do more damage on straights.

Danny Talbot is an excellent third leg runner, back in training now, and Ujah a great starter, so there are options - but sometimes having more options can be a bad thing when it comes to teams getting drilled!

[The Klingon]

If the US is behind with Coleman to Lyles then bad stuff has happened. It seems highly unlikely to occur in a race going somewhat smoothly. Coleman could gain 2 meters and Lyles another 2 meters, and that is assuming the top other two legs are on the same team. But if there is going to be a semi-super anchor running down, say, Ronnie Baker, then that guy is not in the first two, and the gap is larger. This notion that you can same a lot by having someone some where and not give up the advantage elsewhere is odd, especially where, in the case of having Lyles on second, he gets to run further and is almost certainly pulls further away as his 200 ability gives him greater speed over the 90-120 meter range at the end of the zone.

Lets not over think this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right now, it is not broken.

[Atticus]

Lets not over think this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right now, it is not broken.

I don't think anyone assumes that the USA relay woes have been solved just because we didn't botch the passes THIS time.

[58Commander]

I don't think anyone assumes that the USA relay woes have been solved just because we didn't botch the passes THIS time.

HAH So true. We get it right for like the second time in ten years and now we have the magic. Maybe...

[The Klingon]

I don't think anyone assumes that the USA relay woes have been solved just because we didn't botch the passes THIS time.

Oh. Ok. I'm sorry. My bad. I misunderstood. I thought we were talking about which legs each runner is best suited to run.

[26mi235]

Lets not over think this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right now, it is not broken.

That really has nothing to do with the underlying question about what runners to have on what legs. The notion that you always have your best runner is flawed because it does not take anything else into consideration. The thought has generally been the same in the 4x400 but Alison Felix completely destroyed the assumption that best is always last. To think that using AF that way was flawed and she belonged on anchor is nonsense.

[guru]

I don't think anyone assumes that the USA relay woes have been solved just because we didn't botch the passes THIS time.

Handoff extends another few inches on the final exchange in the heats and we're having a very different discussion.

[Dave]

Lets not over think this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right now, it is not broken.

It is November, what else are we going to talk about?

That said. Let’s imagine a couple scenarios:

Jamaica 2012. If Bolt had handed off to Blake or Vice versa, would the competition have been too demoralized to run their race? How about the US 2019 with Coleman handing off to Lyles or Vice versa, would the other teams have been too intimidated to run their best race?