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  • And here's the men updated after last couple of weeks of races

    Average time across his Top 5 performances:
    McSweyn 3:32.83
    Gregson 3:33.15
    Doyle 3:33.36
    Hillardt 3.34.17
    Riseley 3:34.83
    Mottram 3:35.50
    Fountain 3:35.81
    Scammell 3:35.82
    Ramsden 3:36.05
    Matthews 3:36.06

    Average time across their Top 10 performances:
    Gregson 3:33.87
    Doyle 3:34.36
    McSweyn 3:34.42
    Hillardt 3.34.89
    Riseley 3:35.80
    Scammell 3:36.49

    Comment


    • And coming up this week:

      Zagreb (Tues)
      M800: Bol & Deng (chasing Hoppel, Vasquez and a solid field)
      M1500: McSweyn, Ramsden & Gregson as the top trio
      WHJ: McDermott (is 2m in the asking?)

      Rome (Thurs)
      WHJ: McDermott (is 2m in the asking?)
      M3000m: McSweyn, Ramsden & Gregson vs Kiplimo (Stewie chasing Mottram's NR?)

      Will be intriguing to see if the 1500m/3000m double comes to fruition. Quick turnaround...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by El Toro View Post

        Yes, a bit late to be the first at CWG.
        I sometimes wonder if there are other non-caucasians in earlier times. Back in the day, indigenous (and other) ancestors may have been covered up, rather than celebrated.

        I remember researching the 1938 Empire Games medallist (Gold relay, Bronze LJ) Thelma Peake who was - aged 23 - the first married woman and first mother (a son born when she was 15/16) to represent Australia in athletics. Thelma's mother's name was Georgeina Mammeur Ah Chung which indicates she had Asian heritage.

        Anyway, we now return you to 2020...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

          I sometimes wonder if there are other non-caucasians in earlier times. Back in the day, indigenous (and other) ancestors may have been covered up, rather than celebrated.
          Was not both Freeman and Hobson mix race?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post

            Was not both Freeman and Hobson mix race?
            Freeman is not (as we might say downunder) 'full blood' Aboriginal, but couldn't ever pass as caucasian, so not quite sure what your point is. She identifies as indigenous which is what matters down here. Not so sure of Hobson's ancestry but since he claims to have suffered race discrimination during his athletics career, he may as well have been full blood.

            I'm sure it's much the same in almost every country around the world. Would it change the Billy Mills story if he had a caucasian great-grandmother?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

              Freeman is not (as we might say downunder) 'full blood' Aboriginal, but couldn't ever pass as caucasian, so not quite sure what your point is. She identifies as indigenous which is what matters down here. Not so sure of Hobson's ancestry but since he claims to have suffered race discrimination during his athletics career, he may as well have been full blood.

              I'm sure it's much the same in almost every country around the world. Would it change the Billy Mills story if he had a caucasian great-grandmother?
              It was a question really not a point since I was not sure - but now that it is - if there is a point I guess it would be if you are going to use 'racial' terms like 'Caucasian', in the discussion, and not more clear terms regarding 'identity' or social status then if she or him were mixed it would be only fair to point that out.

              Comment


              • Freeman was an Indigenous athlete and identified as such - full stop.

                Comment


                • No NR from McSweyn in Zagreb, but a big 2sec+ win and speedy 3:32.17 (his 4th fastest ever and 7th ever Aussie performance). Ramsden with new PB of 3:34.63 joins Ollie Hoare at =11th on Aussie all-time list. 3:35.22 is Gregson's 12th fastest ever.

                  The reworked rankings again:

                  Average time across Top 5 performances:
                  McSweyn 3:32.72
                  Gregson 3:33.15
                  Doyle 3:33.36
                  Hillardt 3.34.17
                  Riseley 3:34.83
                  Mottram 3:35.50
                  Ramsden 3:35.58
                  Fountain 3:35.81
                  Scammell 3:35.82
                  Matthews 3:36.06

                  Average time across Top 10 performances:
                  Gregson 3:33.87
                  McSweyn 3:33.95
                  Doyle 3:34.36
                  Hillardt 3.34.89
                  Riseley 3:35.80
                  Ramsden 3:36.48
                  Scammell 3:36.49

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

                    Freeman is not (as we might say downunder) 'full blood' Aboriginal,
                    typpo

                    Freeman was an Indigenous athlete and identified as such - full stop.
                    Now I'm confused!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post
                      Now I'm confused!
                      Read the quotes below to clear up any confusion:

                      Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

                      She identifies as indigenous which is what matters down here.
                      Originally posted by typpo View Post
                      Freeman was an Indigenous athlete and identified as such - full stop.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post
                        Now I'm confused!
                        Vault-emort's original musing about the potential lack of knowledge regarding early indigenous athletes was based on specific government policies regarding indigenous peoples.

                        Well into the 20th century, there were deeply embedded beliefs in government that Aboriginals were a dying race that needed management while this happened. To this end, legislation controlled where they could live, work, marry and whether they were able to travel and to keep their children.

                        Where Aboriginal women had children with European men and the father was no longer around, children were often taken from the mother and adopted out to white families. The decision as to which children were taken was frequently (but not always) based on whether the children could "pass for white". Those that couldn't were left behind as part of the "die out" strategy.

                        "Passing for white" allowed those of indigenous heritage to bypass all the legislative restrictions mentioned above. Sometimes this was done in full knowledge of their indigenous heritage but frequently children were not told that they were Aboriginal.

                        It's therefore obvious that any number of athletes and others in those times could have competed and worked, without being known as an Aboriginal.

                        The government eventually finally moved out of the business of deciding who was Aboriginal or not in 1980 when they introduced a test for access to special funding that relied on individuals and their indigenous community deciding that the individual:
                        • was of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
                        • identified as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
                        • was accepted as such by the community in which they lived.

                        For non-government purposes, like sport, individuals are able to self-identify as does Cathy Freeman. She was always aware of her heritage but the impact of family separation and loss of knowledge of heritage still reaches into this millenium. Here's a story of Benn Harradine, CWG, WC & OG discus thrower, and the process of finding out about his heritage:

                        https://www.smh.com.au/sport/two-jou...011-16g2d.html

                        Comment


                        • It was not until 1967 that the Australian Government changed section 127 of the Constitution and included "aboriginal natives" as being people of the Commonwealth.

                          And to this day, the Australian Constitution still does not recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders as Australia’s First Peoples.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by El Toro View Post

                            Vault-emort's original musing about the potential lack of knowledge regarding early indigenous athletes was based on specific government policies regarding indigenous peoples.

                            Well into the 20th century, there were deeply embedded beliefs in government that Aboriginals were a dying race that needed management while this happened. To this end, legislation controlled where they could live, work, marry and whether they were able to travel and to keep their children.

                            Where Aboriginal women had children with European men and the father was no longer around, children were often taken from the mother and adopted out to white families. The decision as to which children were taken was frequently (but not always) based on whether the children could "pass for white". Those that couldn't were left behind as part of the "die out" strategy.

                            "Passing for white" allowed those of indigenous heritage to bypass all the legislative restrictions mentioned above. Sometimes this was done in full knowledge of their indigenous heritage but frequently children were not told that they were Aboriginal.

                            It's therefore obvious that any number of athletes and others in those times could have competed and worked, without being known as an Aboriginal.

                            The government eventually finally moved out of the business of deciding who was Aboriginal or not in 1980 when they introduced a test for access to special funding that relied on individuals and their indigenous community deciding that the individual:
                            • was of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
                            • identified as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
                            • was accepted as such by the community in which they lived.

                            For non-government purposes, like sport, individuals are able to self-identify as does Cathy Freeman. She was always aware of her heritage but the impact of family separation and loss of knowledge of heritage still reaches into this millenium. Here's a story of Benn Harradine, CWG, WC & OG discus thrower, and the process of finding out about his heritage:

                            https://www.smh.com.au/sport/two-jou...011-16g2d.html
                            Thanks for that info, much appreciated. 1980 seem so late. Hope the political climate surrounding these issues is much better. Come on people! I have some family in Australia but hardly ever hear of these issues.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

                              Read the quotes below to clear up any confusion:



                              After reading El Toro's post much clearer thanks!

                              Comment


                              • Why does every time I edit a post it is flagged as potential spam? Is it possibly my location setting?

                                Comment

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