NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>I agree...

When you look at it in terms of
>laps, the 1600 and the mile are 4 laps around the
>track (of course, the mile on a 440y track). Just
>like the 200m and 220y are both half-lap races.
>So, why is some many people insisting that the
>race be 4 and 9/400 laps around the track.
>Tradition back in the day was to have a race of 4
>laps -- just happened to be a mile. Today, the 4
>laps happen to be 1600m instead. What's the big
>deal?

Now, the 1500. OK, so it's been the
>internationally recognized distance for years and
>years and years, while the mile was once an
>American staple. Perhaps we should have and still
>should switch to the 1500 at the high school
>level.

Here's the problem... for the casual
>observer of track and field who sees a runner run
>3:40 or so in the 1500, he's probably going to
>ask "Wow, that's fast. Is 1500m close to a
>mile?" and we'll respond, "No, but it's the
>international equivelent to the mile of
>yesteryear. However, if that same runner were to
>run a mile instead, his time would translate to
>something around 3:55 or so." The casual
>observer then replies "Huh???".

No,
>fastforward... the causal observer of track and
>field sees a runner run 1600m in about 3:55 or
>so. He says, "Wow, that's fast. Is 1600m close
>to a mile?" and we'll respond, "Yes, it just a
>few meters short". The casual observer than
>replies "WOW, THAT"S REALLY FAST"

Very well stated. Also, in high school dual meets the confusion of repositioning the start and finish would likely be more trouble than its worth.

[197hjsteve]

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

sorry to turn all this into a generalized discussion of the metric system but as i said earlier, that's the crux of the whole thing, isn't it ?

But a full legal, educational and psychological conversion to metrics will not happen in the forseeable future. The pols cannot and will not force it down our throats.... it's called democracy, and the majority does not want it.

Ergo, it will not happen.

But it's funny, we "went metric" with our monetary system over 200 years ago back in about 1792 ! That's when it should have happened across the board.

Too late now.......

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>let's just kick this same old horse just a little
>bit more but in a wider context:

It all boils
>down to USA's refusal to adopt the metric system.
>We made a half-***ed attempt back in the 70's or
>thereabouts, INCLUDING GOING TO METERS FOR
>TRACKS AND TRACK EVRENT LENGTHS ( cap.s added
>for emphasis) but it cannot and will not work
>in the real world unless we "bite the bullet"
>and force the metric system down the public's
>throat... and then people, particularly little
>kids then growing up..... THINK in meters
>!

Even as a mathematician, I find it 10 times easier to add distances in meters and distancs in feet and inches.

Imagine a "long jump relay"-- the team of 4 with the longest combine distance wins. What's easier to add?

20'1'' + 19'10.25'' + 21'3.5'' + 20'6.75''
or
6.21m + 6.03m + 6.45m + 6.28m

Sure, people will have to change the way they think about distance: "Move the dresser 2ft to the left" becomes "Move the dresser 61cm to the left" We'll live...


How has it worked in places like the UK,
>Canada, and Ireland ? From what I have seen,
>pretty well.

We are so provincial in the USA
>in so many ways, always thinking the rest of the
>world is out of step. USA, look in the mirror
>!

Brits, Canadians, etc. out there whose
>countries have made the switch, more or less,
>how is it ?

In those countries, what do they
>teach kids in school.... meters, etc., or
>feet/yards/miles ?

[197hjsteve]

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

let's just kick this same old horse just a little bit more but in a wider context:

It all boils down to USA's refusal to adopt the metric system. We made a half-***ed attempt back in the 70's or thereabouts, INCLUDING GOING TO METERS FOR TRACKS AND TRACK EVRENT LENGTHS ( cap.s added for emphasis) but it cannot and will not work in the real world unless we "bite the bullet" and force the metric system down the public's throat... and then people, particularly little kids then growing up..... THINK in meters !

How has it worked in places like the UK, Canada, and Ireland ? From what I have seen, pretty well.

We are so provincial in the USA in so many ways, always thinking the rest of the world is out of step. USA, look in the mirror !

Brits, Canadians, etc. out there whose countries have made the switch, more or less, how is it ?

In those countries, what do they teach kids in school.... meters, etc., or feet/yards/miles ?

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

I agree...

When you look at it in terms of laps, the 1600 and the mile are 4 laps around the track (of course, the mile on a 440y track). Just like the 200m and 220y are both half-lap races. So, why is some many people insisting that the race be 4 and 9/400 laps around the track. Tradition back in the day was to have a race of 4 laps -- just happened to be a mile. Today, the 4 laps happen to be 1600m instead. What's the big deal?

Now, the 1500. OK, so it's been the internationally recognized distance for years and years and years, while the mile was once an American staple. Perhaps we should have and still should switch to the 1500 at the high school level.

Here's the problem... for the casual observer of track and field who sees a runner run 3:40 or so in the 1500, he's probably going to ask "Wow, that's fast. Is 1500m close to a mile?" and we'll respond, "No, but it's the international equivelent to the mile of yesteryear. However, if that same runner were to run a mile instead, his time would translate to something around 3:55 or so." The casual observer then replies "Huh???".

No, fastforward... the causal observer of track and field sees a runner run 1600m in about 3:55 or so. He says, "Wow, that's fast. Is 1600m close to a mile?" and we'll respond, "Yes, it just a few meters short". The casual observer than replies "WOW, THAT"S REALLY FAST"

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

I've always bought into the absurdity of the 1600 and 3200 too. But now I'm thinking 'why all the griping about races that consist of complete laps around a 400 meter track?' It makes sense that after building a 400 meter track there should be a contest to see who can beat the next guy four times around the track. In light of that notion the 1600 makes sense and the 1500 doesn't. Who decided that it makes sense to have a race to see who can run 3 and three quarters times around the track? Just because 1500 is one and a half times the number 1000? Maybe the absurdity lieth therein.

Racing started long ago when a couple of guys decided to see who was fastest in a race to a tree and back. Kind of absurd to have a race to see who is fastest to the tree and three quarters back again. They tailored the race to conform to the venue.

Why don't the Europeans run the 1600 if they insist on building 400 meter tracks? Maybe they should build 500 meter tracks so that they can justify their need to stay with the 1500, 3000, 5000, and 10,000. Tear down the 400 meter tracks and replace them with 500 meter tracks. Then the 200, 400, and 800 guys will look silly not completing even derivatives of the oval.

Lighten up tracksters, its all a complex version of the 'I can run faster than you can' boast.

Absurdity is in the eyes of the beholder and I get a kick out of dabbling in it.

I can see faults in my line of reasoning but then again I can see faults in the current system too. I guess its good that we can get all hot and bothered about something as trivial as who can run fastest.

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>Being an American (by accident of birth here),
>what I want to know is how did "our" oil get
>under their sand?!

Not sure about that... but, if it were "our" oil -- which would mean I have a claim to it, why do I have to pay close to $30 for a barrel of oil? Shouldn't it be free?

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

Being an American (by accident of birth here), what I want to know is how did "our" oil get under their sand?!

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

><< I think it would be a step
>backwards to go
>away from the metric distances.
>Isn't the rest
>of the world already laughing at
>because of our
>reluctance to stop measuring
>throws and jumps
>in feet and inches?>>


The rest of the world
>is already laughing at you for your stupidity in
>Iraq but you seem to be living with that quite
>nicely.

I agree... it's about time the US minds its own business and let's the rest of the world grow up and take care of itself. Couldn't the billions and billions of dollars each year spent aiding and protecting the rest of the world be better spent here at home? Why should Americans care that people all over the world are dying at the hands of disease, hunger, dictators...

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

<< I think it would be a step
>backwards to go away from the metric distances.
>Isn't the rest of the world already laughing at
>because of our reluctance to stop measuring
>throws and jumps in feet and inches?>>


The rest of the world is already laughing at you for your stupidity in Iraq but you seem to be living with that quite nicely.

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>I don't explain to them that it's not a race. I
>was talking about how explaining how going sub 4
>for 1600 isn't like going sub 4 for a full mile.
>It's a pain to do it, but you don't want people
>getting overexcited for nothing.

OK, but going under 4:00 for 1600 meters is still quite an accomplishment for a high school runner and those watching. How many have done it? A handful? Just say that it's a very rare achievement, even at 1600 meters. The average fan probably doesn't care that 3:58+ is the metric equivalent to the 4 minute mile.

How many years did it take the baseball record to accept Roger Maris's home run record (61 in 162 games vs 60 in 154 games for Ruth)? Perhaps the track world will be more gracious and give the next high schooler who runs 3:59 the respect and admiration he deserves.

Considering the fact that the mile run is rarely run, even at the international level, why would we want to to make a standard event at the hs level? While I'm really neutral regarding the 1500/1600 debate (each distances has its weeknesses), I think it would be a step backwards to go away from the metric distances. Isn't the rest of the world already laughing at because of our reluctance to stop measuring throws and jumps in feet and inches?

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

I don't explain to them that it's not a race. I was talking about how explaining how going sub 4 for 1600 isn't like going sub 4 for a full mile. It's a pain to do it, but you don't want people getting overexcited for nothing.

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>I gotta agree that the 1600 and 3200 cause some
>problems with the normal fans. I can't tell you
>how many times I've had to explain the difference
>to the casual fan. It just creates a huge mess,
>especially when you get down to the 4min barrier.
>They should just go with the mile, it'd make
>things a whole lot less confusing to the casual
>observor.

Perhaps that's why people are so disintersted in track these days. Individuals like yourself are constantly trying to explain to others why the race they're watching (1600m) isn't a real race.

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

>What are you talking about? I am definetly going
>to be interested in watching someone who runs
>9.8. Congrats to every HS kid that can triple in
>their state, but to diminsh collegiate athletes
>because they get ready for their conference and
>Nationals differently than a high schooler is not
>right. In fact, there are several athletes who
>will be doubling and tripling at the NCAA meet
>this weekend.

True... But, based on previous discussions regarding the NCAA's, it seems like too many of the top athletes, coaches, and programs in general are more interested in only the big meets. Once they achieve their times, the focus is soley on the conference meet and NCAA.

In high school, these athletes perform night after night to help their team win the dual meets.

Re: NEW U.S. FROSH BOY RECORD 1600 meters

I gotta agree that the 1600 and 3200 cause some problems with the normal fans. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference to the casual fan. It just creates a huge mess, especially when you get down to the 4min barrier. They should just go with the mile, it'd make things a whole lot less confusing to the casual observor.