Are You a Stat Nut?

[EPelle]

GH began a Historical Board discussion surrounding Seattle Mariners Ichiro:s qwest to achieve one of baseball:s all-time stats: the single season hits record, so I wanted to tie track and field into a stats discussion.

Late Los Angeles Times sportswriter Jim Murray had this to say about stats: "I don't know whether you know it, but baseball's appeal is decimal points. No other sport relies as totally on continuity, statistics, orderliness of these. Baseball fans pay more attention to numbers than CPAs."

John M. Culkin in New York Times (1976-07-13): "I don't think baseball could survive without all the statistical appurtenances involved in calculating pitching, hitting and fielding percentages. Some people could do without the games as long as they got the box scores."

What is it about stats that completes your track and field experience? Do track and field fans pay as much or more attention to stats than do baseball fans? What track and field stats do you keep?

[Jon]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>What is it about stats that completes your track and field experience?


I think it's because athletics is such a stats/numbers orientated sport - there's simply no ignoring the stats side to it. Everything to do with T&F (placings, rankings, times, distances, qualifying rounds, fastest losers, etc, etc...) is all about numbers!

But talking points and discussions can arise from 'quirky' stats (such as the recent Tirlea & Tereshchuk stat; and the Kelly Holmes & Albert Hill stat - both of which GH mentioned).



>Do track and field fans pay as much or more attention to stats than do baseball fans?


Haven't a clue - Baseball is hardly played (let alone watched) over here in the UK, so I wouldn't really know.



>What track and field stats do you keep?


I like to keep track of the 'best times for placings' kinda stats - it's a good indication of the greatest races of all time in terms of depth and it adds an extra "WOW" when you see a race like that (such as the first 100mH semi in Athens... a few girls ran 12.6's and failed to qualify for the final!!!).

The T&FN site lists the 'best times for placings' stats, but they haven't been updated for a couple years. GH, Ben - if you'd like, I can help update these lists for you...?

[Powell]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>The T&FN site lists the 'best times for placings' stats, but
>they haven't been updated for a couple years.

I just checked and they do have some results from 2004 in those lists (though not the ones from Athens), so they're not as out-of-date as you say.

[Shanks]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>>The T&FN site lists the 'best times for placings' stats, but
>they haven't
>been updated for a couple years.

I just checked and they do have some
>results from 2004 in those lists (though not the ones from Athens), so they're
>not as out-of-date as you say.

Yes - they are more up to date than two years old, and it also takes time to collate and input the information.

[Jon]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>>The T&FN site lists the 'best times for placings' stats, but
>they haven't
>been updated for a couple years.

I just checked and they do have some
>results from 2004 in those lists (though not the ones from Athens), so they're
>not as out-of-date as you say.



Oh right, hadn't checked them for a couple weeks or so.

[tafnut]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

I am loathe to admit I've kept track stats since '72. Back then it was just to tide me over till the next T&N; now it's because I feel more in touch with what's going on. When I pulled out my last stat offering, even you guys thought it geeky, so mum's the word!

[Shanks]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>I am loathe to admit I've kept track stats since '72. Back then it was just to
>tide me over till the next T&N; now it's because I feel more in touch with
>what's going on. When I pulled out my last stat offering, even you guys thought
>it geeky, so mum's the word!

You're well ahead - mine are only to Moscow '80.....

[EPelle]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

My old roommate was a Curt Schilling-type... he had figures and stats on all of his competitors. He had an average closing lap stat for each of his main competitors based off of locale, day/night, sub-3.45, sub-3.40, and more. He was pretty good with determining the likelihood of him beating all of his competition on a given day, at a given meet.

[Jon]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>he had figures and stats on all of his competitors.



Stefan Holm has done the same with all of his competitors. On his site, if ever you click on the results of a particular competition, if you click on the names of the athletes listed in the results, a new window will pop up with a list of all of their head-to-head, who won, the height they jumped, etc. Quite a nifty database!

[EPelle]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

Yes, Stefan must rank up there with the all-time stat kings.

[tafnut]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>>On his site, if ever you click on>the results of a particular competition, if you click on the names of the>athletes listed in the results, a new window will pop up with a list of all of>their head-to-head, who won, the height they jumped, etc. Quite a nifty>database!

Who, pray tell, did his? [doesn't look like yours]

[Jon]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

>Who, pray tell, did his? [doesn't look
>like yours]




Lol - I'm not sure. He manages and maintains the site himself. He might have got someone else to do the design and programming, or he may well have even done it himself!

[dl]

Re: Why the Big Stats Attraction?

The best-ever mark-for-place stats were updated prior to Athens.

[mike renfro]

Re: Are You a Stat Nut?

Stat nut used to be my name. I have gotten lazy in my dottage. I started following the sport as a bit more than the casual fan in '75. Soon discovered TFN and ATFS. I didn't actually subscribe to TFN or TNL until '78. I had friend who had subcription, and just borrowed. That got old, and the guy who had the TNL sub carried it around in his pocket, so it was often unreadible. We picked up on Athletics Weekly to get the UK version of things (way too much space on school champs IMO, but if I lived there, maybe not). TFN was close, so I often dropped in to peruse their copy of Legayla Atletkia (sp) and Der Leichtathletic. That way, I could get the cyrillic on Soviet names. Of course, some of their list included transliterations (Baltics, eg). In about '78, we were frustated by the lack of women's lists in the ATFS annual, so we constructed our own. When we had finished them, of course, ATFS included women in the next annual. At that juncture, we decided to maintain the lists, and to do them for men as well, because May or June is a long time to wait for updated lists. We updated about 4 times per year. I also maintained my own PB (actually personal witness) lists, ten deep. When I got laid off, I didn't get the files out, so the list died.

In the early '80s, we joined ATFS. When to one meeting, Helsinki '83. Decided that not much was to be gained, so never attended another. I decided that as all I wanted from ATFS was the annual, I resigned, and just bought the book. I did send corrections to Peter Matthews until the mid '90s. One thing that was really good was the contact with other ATFS members. I did quite a bit of correspondence with the Czech group, especially the guy who did the hep. When I was in Praha in '93, I tried to contact Milan, but he was in Zurich for Weltklasse.

When FAST was founded, I was a charter member, and over the years did various events for the annual. I started with horizontal jumps and hept. I later picked up deca, and frustrated with lack of access to wind info, switched to long throws. After losing my files, and trying to do lists on a pretty primative PC, I basically quit. I still am a member, but a lurker, not a provider.

For several years, I was a TFN correspondent, but was dropped, first from the AOY panel, then entirely. Makes sense, they are well covered in the bay area, and I don't go to many (any?) meets were they don't have a presence.

[Alan Shank]

Re: Are You a Stat Nut?

I used to be called "The Mad Splitter." I had split times for all the WR races from 800 up, plus lots of other races. I also, as Mike Renfro has pointed out, took hurdle-touchdown splits in 400H races. This was back in the 60's and early 70's. Then I went for several years not following track before getting back into it on a less anal basis in the late 70's.

One project I have done more recently is to create a database of the first eight finishers in every event (except the walks) in each WC and Olympics beginning with 1983. I have recently brought it up to date through Athens '04. I can query by event, country or individual.

One of the problems I have come up against is the inconsistency of spelling of names, both given and surnames, for different meets. I have gone through and (I hope) found all the different surnames that represent the same person (except married names, another nightmare) and am working on surnames with different versions of the same given name. Slavic and Arabic names are often transliterated differently. Oh, well.

Cheers,
Alan Shank