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**kuha** · 10-05-2004, 02:33 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Geb broke the 5k record 4 times outdoors (12:56, 12:44, 12:41, and 12:39).

**No Name** · 10-05-2004, 02:36 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Is having both an option?

Frankly, I'd rather have the gold. World records are broken, but gold medals cannot be taken away (unless you're Ben Johnson or Kelli White).

**ZZrunZZ** · 10-05-2004, 02:36 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

You're right...1994, 1995, 1997, 1998...all my other figures reflect that though.

**ZZrunZZ** · 10-05-2004, 02:41 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Sure, having both is an option....

It's true what you say about the gold medal, but as a gold medalist you can't necessarily say, "Nobody has EVER run the 5,000 meters faster than I did today."

Isn't that the ultimate goal of being a competitive runner?

**Asterix** · 10-05-2004, 02:42 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

<<Would you rather be the World Recordholder in the 5,000 meters or have an Olympic Gold Medal for the 5,000 meter run?>>

Now we're getting into subjective merits of different events. For the flagship events (generally agreed to be the 100, mile/1500 and marathon), being an Olympic champion likely supercedes world record holder status.

Other events (eg the 5000) aren't as idolized or considered as important by the general sporting population and hence a gold medal may not be seen as quite as big a deal as one in the marquee events. This applies somewhat as well to comparisons of world records, which may make differentiation of events here moot.

How many 200m Oly champions can you name vs 100m? 5000 vs marathon?

**Asterix** · 10-05-2004, 02:46 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

<<as a gold medalist you can't necessarily say, "Nobody has EVER run the 5,000 meters faster than I did today.">>

If someone ran faster for 5,000 that day, then why were they not the gold medalist?

<<Isn't that the ultimate goal of being a competitive runner?>>

Depends on if you are competing against the clock or against your opponents.

**ZZrunZZ** · 10-05-2004, 03:31 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Asterix -

I purposely phrased the question like I did so that you would choose which of the two you rather have instead of what others deem to be more valuable. I'm curious to see what other runners would choose. For me, I'd rather have the world record.

Obviously this is a purely subjective choice. I doubt that there is a RIGHT answer.

<<<<..as a gold medalist you can't necessarily say, "Nobody has EVER run the 5,000 meters faster than I did today.">>
<<If someone ran faster for 5,000 that day, then why were they not the gold medalist?>>

Maybe they ran faster that day in a non-Olympic race/meet (highly unlikely)....but that's not my point....my point was, a Gold Medalist does not have to run a world record time to win gold...however, a world recordhodler CAN say that nobody has ever run faster (at that moment in time/day) regardless of when or where he ran the time. He does not have to run in the olympics to set a world record.

Ultimately, every race is judged (relative to all other races/performances) on time. First to the finish line wins so to speak. A world record time is a world record time regardless of distance. An Olympic gold is just that, an olympic gold. One meet, one race, one time.

**marknhj** · 10-05-2004, 03:38 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Gold medal every time - ask El G...

**malmo** · 10-05-2004, 03:43 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Deon Saunders: Bofe.

**EPelle** · 10-05-2004, 03:45 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Gold medal.

A 1,500m year like 1985 (Cram/Aouita), a 10,000m year like 1997, or even the Komen/Geb 5K rivalry *two different WRs in nine days in 1997) could easily see one:s WR disappear in no time. Four years after winning an Olympic gold medal, your name would still be in the loop. To me, it sounds better to be presented as "(name), Olympic Gold medalist", instead of "(name), former world-record holder."

**Al in NYC** · 10-05-2004, 03:49 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

"It's true what you say about the gold medal, but as a gold medalist you can't necessarily say, "Nobody has EVER run the 5,000 meters faster than I did today."

Isn't that the ultimate goal of being a competitive runner?"

Well, that may be the goal of a runner, but I would think that the primary goal of a "competitive runner" is racing and beating the best runners in the world head-to-head. As such, I would think that winning the Olympic gold in a RACE, even a slow tactical race, against the very best is worth a bit more than records, which are most often set in what are essentially rabbited time trials.

Of course the "ultimate" goal is to have both distinctions: being the best racer and the fastest runner.

**Asterix** · 10-05-2004, 04:10 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

<<Ultimately, every race is judged (relative to all other races/performances) on time. First to the finish line wins so to speak.>>

This is somewhat contradictory. Ultimately, not every race is judged on time. TnFN annual rankings place a heavy weighting (more than time) on head-to-head performance. Most people (at least those here) when discussing 'greatest races' tend to go with epic battles. Has the 3:26.00 performance been brought up as one of the greatest 1500m races versus numerous Oly duels? More often than not, it's first to the finish line in any given race that wins, not just fastest ever.

<<A world record time is a world record time regardless of distance.>>

And often at a less common distance (although I guess sometimes they are technically 'world bests') such 1000m or 2 miles. An Olympic gold is a more historically recognized achievement.

I guess this is a roundabout way of getting to the point that by and large, a gold medal would trump a world record, at least in my not-so-humble opinion, although some events would take precedence over others.

**ZZrunZZ** · 10-05-2004, 04:12 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Here's how long (days) the men's 5,000m world recordholders have held their title as WRholder:

Gunder Hägg SWE 4,270 days
Hannes Kolehmainen FIN 3,716
Paavo Nurmi FIN 3,568
Saïd Aouita MOR 3,234
Haile Gebrselassie ETH 3,107
Vladimir Kuts URS 3,054
Charles Bennett GBR 2,981
Ron Clarke AUS 2,581
Lauri Lehtinen FIN 2,553
Kenensia Bekele ETH 2,179
Emiel Puttemans BEL 1,749
Henry Rono KEN 1,551
Arthur Robinson GBR 1,396
Taisto Mäki FIN 1,192
David Moorcroft GBR 1,116
Gordon Pirie GBR 481
George Touquet-Daunis FRA 420
Daniel Komen KEN 295
Dick Quax NZL 277
Sandor Iharos HUN 248
Kipchoge Keino KEN 217
Emil Zatopek CZE 91
Moses Kiptanui KEN 69
Chris Chataway GBR 10
Lasse Viren FIN 6

This list includes pre-1908 recordholders. For those runners who held the WR on multiple occassions I combined all of their reigns into one total number of days.

**ZZrunZZ** · 10-05-2004, 04:22 PM

Re: Gold Medal vs World Record??

Asterix-

Most typical "scorecards" make reference to times: Personal Record, Meet Record, Course Record, Stadium/Track Record, School Record, Olympic Record, National Record, World Record...etc. etc. so in the vast majority of cases time is the ultimate measure of distinction.

Is the gold medal more valuable because it's easier to remember who won the gold than who holds the record time ? To the average person in the street perhaps.

I love a great head-to-head battle to the finish as much as the next person. I can enjoy the heck out of a competitive race regardless of time. Hell, I still get a kick out of watching a high school XC meet where the two slowest runners on the course battle it out between themselves all the way to the finish.

It's all good.

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