One more Webb thought

[Guest]

He's gotta be hurt.

I don't buy this idea that he's a head case. Running the 1500 is not like trying to make a birdie putt. Running is elemental. The nerves go away as soon as the gun fires.

I don't buy the early maturer theory, either. Even if Webb was more mature than most high-schoolers when he ran 3:53, he's still on the upside of his physical potential. Milers peak in their late 20s and early 30s.

Naw, he's gotta be hurt. Maybe it's his achilles. Or maybe the fact of favoring his achilles for many months has caused problems elsewhere. His arm action in the USATF 1500 looked all akimbo to me.

What Webb should do is move to a runner's mecca like Eugene or Boulder or Palo Alto where he can train with good runners but also get the best medical or physical therapy help.

[lagsun]

Re: One more Webb thought

Read Sub 4 by Chris Lear. You get a better sense of what he was going through (pressure, expectations, etc) last year. He seems to be pretty high maintenance and was lacking a lot of confidence, which manifested itself especially during races last year. After reading the book and watching his races at the US Championships, I think his problems are psychological and not physical. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

I've watched Webb develop for years and find him immature both mentally and physically. He should have stayed with the collegiate training and made the most of what he was offered. I agree that the twenty something runner isn't mature enough to go against a runner in his late 20's, early 30's. At USTAF I watched boys against men and Webb was one of them.

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

I don't buy this idea that
>he's a head case. Running the 1500 is not like
>trying to make a birdie putt. Running is
>elemental. The nerves go away as soon as the gun
>fires.

"Psycholgical" doesn't mean nervousness. Everybody has nervousness that's adreneline - if you don't have that you won't race well. Psychological issues with distance running are rooted in lack of confidence. It can become a downward spriral. Poor racing, overtraining to try to get confidence back, leading to more poor racing leading to more overtraining. Until something (injury/illness), or someone (coach or advisor) puts a stop to the cycle. He may even have anemia or chronic fatigue as a result of stress and too much training. He looks to be running tired.

It is hard for a young athlete to see the problem (much like anorexia) they feel they must not be training hard enough and don't want to take a break in fear of losing even more of the fitness they has been working so hard to gain. Webb feels the expectations of family, friends, coach, fans and Nike. He may be feeling like he is letting everyone down.

I hope, if this is happening someone will intervene before this year is lost. He should really rest. Hit the track for some very quick speed sessions. Fast but with plenty of recovery on intervals and between sessions.

His fitness is fine - he won't lose any aerobic base or strength by stepping back for a few weeks. And maybe the speed work and rest will help him get the snap back into his legs.

[jlanza]

Re: One more Webb thought

I don't think he's hurt, just tired...but I certainly do not have any special persepctive. The posibility cannot be ruled out that he will never be better than he was his senior year in high school. We all know runners who ran their best race in high school and never got any better. That would not explain why he can't come close to 3:53, but perhaps he's peaked as a runner and can't come close again. I hope not.

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

>He's gotta be hurt.

I don't buy this idea that
>he's a head case. Running the 1500 is not like
>trying to make a birdie putt. Running is
>elemental. The nerves go away as soon as the gun
>fires.


Naw, he's
>gotta be hurt. Maybe it's his achilles. Or maybe
>the fact of favoring his achilles for many months
>has caused problems elsewhere...

It could be mental, no doubt about it. Jim Ryun, while never the same after mono, was still a fast miler - yet in 71 - 72 he was running 4:12 - 4:17 miles, looking awful, then bounced back at the Oly trials and ran 1:45, won the 1500, and ran 3:52 in the mile just before the games, where he fell on his tail. Point is, those poor runs by Ryun were undoubtedly from mental stress factors. For some reason, this seems to affect American runners more often than those from other countries. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that way to me.

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

>>and ran 3:52
>in the mile just before the games, where he fell
>on his tail. >>

He didn't fall; he was tripped.

[seamus]

Re: One more Webb thought

You've obliquely made a point that I was attempting to make on the other string because if Alan moved to Eugene etc, He would be in a running paradise with lots of support from runners near the same level as him. Kinda like being on a team Hmmmmm?

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

>>>and ran 3:52
>in the mile just before the
>games, where he fell
>on his tail. >>

He
>didn't fall; he was tripped.

You mean he didn't fall after he was tripped?

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

I know someone is a stats man out there. Did pre ever match or excede his college days times after he finished school?

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

>I know someone is a stats man out there. Did pre
>ever match or excede his college days times after
>he finished school?

i dont know about prefontaine, but jim ryun ran his lifetime best in 1966, at age 19, carlos lopes on the other hand won the olympic marathon at 37 and set a world record at 38 and look how well jacobs is running, she may break the american womens 1500 record and she will be 40 next month. there are age group phenoms and there are late bloomers, like bill rodgers 936, 2 mile in high scool 858 in college.

[jhc68]

Re: One more Webb thought

Back to Webb... he was lucky to make the finals at Stanford. He lead the way in the prelim race but had nothing to respond with in the rush to the finish. He lost any semblence of running form, thrashed around looking like he was fighting the proverbial bear on his back and looked very fatigued. Anyone else see that? Was it mental or physical fatigue, do you think?

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

>Back to Webb... he was lucky to make the finals
>at Stanford. He lead the way in the prelim race
>but had nothing to respond with in the rush to
>the finish. He lost any semblence of running
>form, thrashed around looking like he was
>fighting the proverbial bear on his back and
>looked very fatigued. Anyone else see that? Was
>it mental or physical fatigue, do you think?


Yes, this was covered above. Overtraining leads to fatigue - physical. He may have chronic fatigue syndrome. So much pressure to perform is taking its toll on a young kid.

[Guest]

Re: One more Webb thought

To my eye, Webb's problems are primarily physical. Whatever confidence problems he suffers are related to the fact he ain't running well.

Nothing in Webb's background suggests he's some kind of weird head case. He's a young, intelligent guy trying to meet huge expectations, he's running poorly, and he probably feels like crap. Left untreated, this can turn anyone into a headcase. But I don't think Webb starts out as a headcase.

The best analogy is Ryun post-mono. It must have mystified the hell out of Ryun, and for a while his DNFs and his 4:17s indeed made him look like a head case. If Ryun had had a sophisticated coach and better medical treatment, he might have fulfilled his potential and run 3:46. The fact Ryun has had a successful post-racing career completely blows away the primary head case theory about Ryun.

Point is, for Webb, sophisticated coaching and medical treatment, even pyschological treatment if he needs it, are available now. Webb's error is that he doesn't appear to be taking advantage of these resources. He certainly has the money to do so.

Let's not give up on Webb. Some of the cruel comments that occasionally appear on this site, about Webb, about Gabe, about any young runner with enormous talent and dedication who might happen to be struggling at the moment, are really beyond the pale.

[lagsun]

Re: One more Webb thought

Rich,

Webb's problems just might be physical. He seems to be a workout monster, doing a lot of extra drills and stuff. I wonder if he is overtraining, but what do I know.

As I said earlier, read Chris Lear's new book, Sub 4. I'll even lend you my copy if you want. It's a decent book and gives good insight into Webb's mental state, confidence and high expectations for himself. The book helped me put Webb's recent struggles into better perspective. His performances this past Spring at low-key meets haven't helped his already low self-confidence. Maybe his physical condition is contributing factor, but I do recall him saying earlier in the year that he was in great shape.

I'm not counting him out, but he does strike me as a head case. Only time will tell if he can turn things around.

John