Trashing World Records

[Jon]

Re: Trashing World Records

Good chart, donley2. And I agree that there no doubt would be a correlation with random testing figures.

Do you have stats for the women's events too? Over the past few years I think more women's WRs have been broken than men's (just a guess).

I'd also be interested to see the stats of the marathon - for both sexes. That's one event which has definitely started improving a lot in recent years.

[gh]

Re: Trashing World Records

Women's records? All depends on how you define "core" events. As I've noted many times here, in 1989 I made a public prediction that we would go to the end of the millenium without seeing a single women's WR in what was then events that were well established. Not included was any distance race over the 3000, the 400H, the PV, TJ or HT. We're now 15 years down the road and I believe the count remains.... ZERO! (not counting the something-was-clearly-fishy Chinese marks in the 1500 and 3000)

[Jon]

Re: Trashing World Records

>Not included was any distance race over the 3000,
the 400H, the PV, TJ or HT.
>not counting the something-was-clearly-fishy Chinese marks in the 1500 and 3000




Well we're not left with much if you're excluding those! Just the the power events (sprints & SP), 800m, HJ, LJ, JT and DT. It's pretty much half-and-half.

If we have to sit through another decade of WRs being broken in the PV, 400mH, TJ, HT, and 5,000m upwards before we see a WR being set in the other events, then I won't really mind too much.

On the subject of tough women's WRs, there's just as many tough men's WRs. Javelin aside, no man has set a WR in a throwing event for 14 years. Even including the JT, that record looks very safe for the next few years. Then the 200m, 400m, 400mH, HJ, PV, LJ and TJ seem far beyond today's generation of athletes abilities.

[donley2]

Re: Trashing World Records

If we have to sit through another decade of WRs being broken
>in the PV, 400mH, TJ, HT, and 5,000m upwards before we see a WR being set in
>the other events, then I won't really mind too much.

I think the point is not what us hard cores think about whether records are being broken or not. The point (at least from my point of view) is that world records generate POSITIVE press. The fewer world records, the less positive press the sport generates. Good press is something this sport is seriously in need of.

[acquiredtaste7]

Re: Trashing World Records

What about the SP on your chart?

[Powell]

Re: Trashing World Records

>We're now 15 years down the road and I believe the
>count remains.... ZERO! (not counting the something-was-clearly-fishy Chinese
>marks in the 1500 and 3000)

Well, if you discard the Chinese times, then you have to believe Sonia O'Sullivan broke Kazankina's 3000 record in 1994 and that record was broken again by Gabi Szabo in 2002.

[RMc]

Re: Trashing World Records

On the subject of tough
>women's WRs, there's just as many tough men's WRs. Javelin aside, no man has
>set a WR in a throwing event for 14 years.

As I've said before, the men's throws exhibit the same pattern as the women's "core" events, and probably for the same reasons. That's why we're discussing the problem here and what to do about it.

On the men's distance WRs, I did an analysis last year that showed that the men's distance records had gone through "bursts" in the past, and that the 1990s progression was consistent with those past bursts. The previous bursts arose in the early 1930s, the early 1950s, and mid 1960s. The amount of improvement was consistent in each period, and in fact the 1960s improvements were at a more rapid annual rate than in the 1990s. That the records have not been improved substantially since 2000 is not a surprise. I expect that the records will remain relatively static for at least the next decade.

[Jon]

Re: Trashing World Records

I think the point is not what us
>hard cores think about whether records are being broken or not. The point (at
>least from my point of view) is that world records generate POSITIVE press. The
>fewer world records, the less positive press the sport generates. Good press is
>something this sport is seriously in need of.



I see where you're coming from - WRs are one of the ways in which every-day people take notice of T&F ("oh look, they've just become the fastest human on Earth" kinda thing). But not all WRs generate positive press. (China '93 for example).

[donley2]

Re: Trashing World Records

I added the SP to my original chart. Not sure what happened there. Anyway one final comment on the chart. I think in one sense due to the dramatic effect altitude (Mexico City 68 and 79) had on the record progressions in several events the chart actually understates how dramatically the record breaking rate has fallen particularly since the 80's.