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  • The Flash
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    A few years ago, when I was a senior in high school, I trained a little for the decathlon, which I never competed in. I was 5-8, 145, and I threw the 16-pounder 31-4--whether that is good or not, I don't know, but if you want to set aside the whole argument that this sport is "absolute" and not "relative" and try to invent a method of comparison, try this (I know there would be a better mathematical model for this, this is just for fun, right?):

    throw-ft / weight-lbs = score

    265, 57-3 = .21603774 You
    155, 33-6 = .21612903 Your friend

    Your friend would need to throw 33-6 to out-throw you, pound for pound. I wouldn't put any stock in this, though. It's just interesting.

    145, 31-4 = .21609195 Me
    285, 72-3 = .25350877 John Godina
    319, WR = .23778736 Randy Barnes

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  • KEL
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    Last summer I attended a 3 day seminar for professional strength and conditioning coaches sponsered by the NSCA. James Radcliffe was one of the primary presenters (he is the long time strength coach for the U of Oregon and the foremost authority in the US on plyometrics). Jimmy stated that they have almost eliminated the high depth drop jumps, the gains were not significant when compared to lesser heights and much less incidents of injuries. I believe this would be doubly true for masters level athletes. He also stated that they rarely allow even their elite levels athletes to perform the most demanding plyometric exercises with less than 3 years experience training with plyometrics.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    Methinks gh thinks that everybody knows that Jeff Bennett was a stud decathlete.

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  • gh
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    When 5-8/152 Jeff Bennett finished 4th in the '72 Olympic shot he threw a PR 42-0.75

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    Makes sense to me but I'd be newvous that I would sprain an ankle or something. I dont throw to warm up either, maybe stand/power throw or 2 but thats it. I do quick short sprints free squats and jump a little.

    Pretty impressive that the big men can slam it in the hoop huh?
    I can barely, its rough.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    I read an article on Nelson and others last year that talked about their competition warmup. It talked about how little they warmup actually throwing anymore, saving it for the competition; but what was relevant to this discussion is that they talked about going into a nearby gym and dunking basketballs before they went out and threw. They said the explosiveness prepared them before they competed!!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    I will be a college thrower and use plyometrics (box jumping and what not)as a huge part of my training and use 42" boxes. Its not as hard as it may seem if you know how to jump so as to harness your explosive power. I am only about 6', 250lbs. so I guess it depends on perspective.

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  • Twister
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    I talked to some college shot men that vert jump over high hurdles(42") in training. Of course they have to pull there legs up to go over, still a long way up for a big guy.

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  • 197hjsteve
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    marknhj's message rang a chord with me.. as a former hj'er myself.

    My older brother and I built a miniature track facility in our back yard, with a sawdust pit and standards, a dirst HJ takeoff zone, a wooden board about 16' from the pit, and last but not least we built a dirst SP ring, then bought a 12 lb. shot put.

    Getting too long here, sorry. Bottom line is that although my older brother was much stronger than I in the shoulders and arms, I could beat him in the SP because of my jumping ability !

    I still have that shot put on my bookshelf. Great piece of memoribalia.

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  • br
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    I recall Brian Oldfield being pretty quick. Didn't he race women during the ITA days?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    You're absolutely correct. Most of the throwers I was around had fantastic standing LJ's and vertical jumps, often better than the jumpers and sprinters. They could also move (see the other thread about AN). I have a vague recollection of Capes racing the top UK female sprinters in the 1970's over 60m and either winning or coming close (Sonia Lannaman or Andrea Lynch, I think). However, one of my proudest moments as a weedy 1651b HJer was beating Dave Ottley in an overhead shot throw comp, the year after he got Silver in the 1984 javelin! Don't remember Geoff chucking it 60' without using his arm, but I do remember him trying to overcome problems he faced with his head in major meets. He was taught to only concentrate on his fingertip action, nothing else, by the guy who wrote "The Inner Game of Golf".

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    >It's
    >also more about legs and torso than it is about
    >arms.

    Absolutely right! I can relate to the Capes story. I demonstrate to my athletes the same thing, although not 60 ft!!! Using just your lower body and never "striking" the shot with your arm, you can get quite a distance.

    I've heard 75% of your throw is legs?

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  • gh
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    << Shot Put is about SPEED, not size.>>

    It's also more about legs and torso than it is about arms. As a no-chested 5-9/152 triple jumper who couldn't bench more than 175lb I could hit 40ft simply by being able to harness the decent power in my lower half.

    I never actually saw him do it, but former British recordholder Geoff Capes (a 71-footer) used to say that he would demonstrate how huge a part the rest of the body played by throwing 60-feet without using his hands! I guess he "used" his hands in the sense of balancing the shot, but he said he could hit 60 just flipping the shot off his shoulder. He was always a straight-up guy, so I bought the story. Anybody with more putting knowledge care to comment?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    What would be good for a guy 5'7" and 155? Well Andy Giesler is probably only a little bit bigger than that and he's thrown over 50' with the spin, Hart has also thrown far. I suggest if you want to see what is possible, check out decathlon results. (How big is Dan O'Brien, and he's thrown 54'!!!!) Shot Put is about SPEED, not size.

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  • hammer forever
    replied
    Re: small man's shot put

    Twister--
    I encourage you to keep practicing and can't wait for you to post your Iowa Games results.
    Keep trying!
    Maybe try a "stand" shotput in practice just to hone your release at the toe board...then return to doing full circle throws. Is your throwing elbow high and parallel with your shoulder or does it droop down too close to your body, resulting in sub-par throws....are you doing a vigorous extension, utilizing your full reach when you release? Are you "opening up" as you come across the circle and dissapating energy unnecessarily.....I'm not a coach and after not throwing for 7 years my technique must be lousy, but I encourage you all the same.

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