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Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

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  • Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

    What i want to understand, but simply cannot, is WHY are this Drug Use is not detected?? Is it that easy to get around the rules ? What's the deal ?

    Maybe it is just time to give up, really. If we simply cannot properly catch the drug users, it is unfair to both users and non users to go on this way. Just shoot 'em up ,and die later. It's an individual choice.

    I know, I know, " how can we set such an example for the youth " of this country ? Well, it's their choice too.

    Spoken by an ex (very ex) athlete, father, and adult that has never so much as seen a drug more less taken one.

    Prohibition did not work for alcohol and was repealed.

    It's time to give up on this issue.

  • #2
    Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

    Can't let it go...our sport would die a quick death if drugs became the norm. Parents wouldn't want thier kids getting involved in a sport where to continue to compete at some point the kid would need to take drugs. No kids - no future. Imagine if the NFL legalized steroids. What parent would want their kid aspiring to make the NFL (and be drugged). Plus if you legalize drug use you essentially make it a requirement for all athletes to take the drugs to compete (i.e. Pro Bodybuilding).

    They DO catch the drug use - especially at the top end in each event.

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    • #3
      Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

      Someone higher up the chain (well, actually everyone is higher on the chain than me) can perhaps verify this, but my understanding is that blood tests can catch 100% of the cheats, 100% of the time, but the legal issues involved would be hard to surmount. It is also my understanding that the East Germans easily beat the tests in the 70's and 80's (as do some now) by simply knowing how the tests work and then masking the usage with other drugs. It's like hacking computers - you just have to know how one works to bypass its own safeguards.

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      • #4
        Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

        Steve,

        Unfortunately I've come to the same conclusion. I thought that when random, out of competition, testing came out things would improve but doubt that's the case. Everybody involved in athletics can get hold of drugs in about two minutes. In my era (70's-80's)it was rampant. What was worse some of our administrators, coaches and yes, even doctors, both condoned and supported it. (To those who are now probably typing "name names" or shut up...tough). The old adage that the athletes are one step ahead is true, they are. When steriod tests started catching people they switched to HGH. Hell...I got a spam last week selling HGH online(a change from the usual viagra and penile enlargement ones). And, if one accepts that people were prepared to take drugs when there was little money in the sport, imagine what the incentive is now.

        Mark Naylor
        Los Angeles

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        • #5
          Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

          >Can't let it go...our sport would die a quick
          >death if drugs became the norm. Parents wouldn't
          >want thier kids getting involved in a sport where
          >to continue to compete at some point the kid
          >would need to take drugs. No kids - no future.
          >Imagine if the NFL legalized steroids. What
          >parent would want their kid aspiring to make the
          >NFL (and be drugged). Plus if you legalize drug
          >use you essentially make it a requirement for
          >all athletes to take the drugs to compete (i.e.
          >Pro Bodybuilding).

          They DO catch the drug
          >use - especially at the top end in each event.

          You think the majority of American parents look at NFL players and think, "little Johnny can play in the NFL if he lifts a lot of weights"...puleeeze. Agree that you still have to test but just don't accept what you are seeing are natural performances. Many aren't. Seems to me that 90% of true fans think many of the competitors are juiced. Since we don't seem capable of attracting regular sports fans, so what?

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          • #6
            Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

            >Can't let it go...our sport would die a quick
            death if drugs became the norm. Parents wouldn't
            want thier kids getting involved in a sport where
            to continue to compete at some point the kid
            would need to take drugs. No kids - no future.<

            What you're forgetting was that before there was out-of-competition testing, drugs WERE the norm. And guess what? There were more kids involved in the sport then, there were more meets, and more spectators.

            I'm not sure it's cause and effect, but the cracking down own drugs has coincided with the deterioration of the base of the sport in this country.

            There are still reasons to ban drugs and try to stay ahead of the people who violate the ban. But if you think the sport would necessarily die if we didn't ban drugs, you're kidding yourself.

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            • #7
              Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

              The questions of the Day is,"If you do test one of your own athletes , do you report it?" This crap is still going on, WADA is still in litagation with USATF to release the names of the 13 American athletes who tested positive prior to 2000 Sydney Games. The USATF argued that it could not release the names of those who tested positive due to privacy laws in the US. The CAS ruled that this law did not exist , there was nothing preventing disclosure. The USATF countered that "B" samples were not yet processed, thus they could not reveal the names of the athletes. This whole processed started 4.5 years ago. Every Country in the world now follows the United States lead, you will never , ever see an Olympic medal hopeful from any country fail a test within there own Country. There is no incentive to embarrass your country,your development program,and risk IAAF rebates involved in world rankings. DROP ALL DRUG TESTING

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              • #8
                Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                < Every Country in the world now
                >follows the United States lead, you will never ,
                >ever see an Olympic medal hopeful from any
                >country fail a test within there own Country.>>

                Does the name Justin Gatlin ring a bell?

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                • #9
                  Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                  >WADA is still in litagation with USATF to release the names of the 13 American athletes who tested positive prior to 2000 Sydney Games.<

                  That's just not true.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                    if blood tests are really that accurate, lets use it. when people test positive their records if they have any should be discounted. 2 example boulami runs a 753 steeple test positive, but still is listed as world record holder at 7.55, i say if he ran 7.55 clean, it is very improbable he would resort to unfair means, so i think his 7.55 is tainted as well, same with grit breur 49.4 wjr if she had run that fast as a junior, she would not have used something banned to improve. lyle alzado came out and told of the rampant steroid use in football, high school and college as well as the pros and ken caminiti said major league baseball players, 90% are on steroids, he reduced that number after a lot of pressure. i dont think track really wants performance enhancers eliminated. A lot of people go to track meets to see fast times, and without performance enhancers there would still be great competitions, however you can just about forget world records.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                      >same with grit breur
                      >49.4 wjr if she had run that fast as a junior,
                      >she would not have used something banned to
                      >improve.


                      Another "dodgy" thing about Grit Breuer is that she hasn't improved upon her WJR time during her whole career. She ran that time (49.42) in 1991, served a ban, came back in 1996 and has made the top-ten lists each year (bar 2000) since then, yet has not managed to better her 49.42. Heck, she hasn't even managed to break the 49.50 that she ran as an 18 year old, since coming back from her ban!

                      Her 100m, 200m, and indoor 200m PBs (11.13, 22.45, 22.58i) were all set in '91 or before, and just underline the suspicions.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                        This was based on the quote by Richard Pound IOC, head of World Anti Doping Agency.
                        Athletics Magazine/June 2003- Article s. Nagy
                        Pound Quote:
                        "WADA is still after USATF to release the names of the athletes involved.They (USATF) think they can tough it out. If a National Federation stonewalls long enough, it can suceed in protecting the athletes found guilty of drug use. "

                        There is more, but that is the basis of my comments, all the information is available if you do your research. Basically the issue is not dead , because one of the 13 athletes who won a medal they did not deserve. More litagation to come.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                          I think T&F suffers the greatest damage of all sports because of drug use.

                          Pro football probably has greater drug use, but football is all about relative performance. We just don't seem to care that linemen are 320 pounds nowadays. If all linemen take steroids, it balances out and the competition is deemed to be fair. People watch football for the game.

                          Track is different. We love track is because it is pure. You can't b.s. your way into a sub 10 second 100m. You either ran it or not. It is not relative to anything --- it is absolute and pure! Later in life you can't inflate your accomplishments without abjectly lying.

                          Drugs have sullied the purity of track. They have destroyed the trust and sanctity of records, particularly for women. (I would hate to face the temptation that Allyson Felix will face some day.) Drugs have made a mockery of a sport once so ideal and pure that the Olympics were created around it.

                          Somehow we have to deal with this problem.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                            To Mark Naylor LA

                            Mark I do agree with you sadly. From a competitve insider, this is what it has come down to. For endurance
                            athletes, no drugs are required, no EPO - nothing. What is happening is called the "buddy system". Cross country skiing, long sprints to marathon , its still to risky to fail a test at a major comp. You bring a "buddy" with a blood type match , take a blood donation from him and
                            centrifuge the blood. collect the red blood cells , and inject to yourself. This is dummied down of coarse. No drugs, masking agents, endocrinologist required. Be glad your comp days are behind you. Thing get more ungodly every day.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                              Rich K. above said it perfectly. The answer is not to give in but to FIX it. Lifetime bans are one answer, as is stripping the athlete of ALL awards and records won previously, whether they tested postive or not. Seems harsh, but truely stiff penalties combined with quality testing procedures are the answer.

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