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Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

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  • #16
    Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

    When will you guys realize the medals are not what these athletes are after. It's the money, the fame, the bling bling. Just look at our most recent champions. Remember the mens 4x1, when they won the gold and showed off their chests, wrapped the flag around their heads and acted like fools. Winning didn't mean a gold medal, it meant acknowledgement, fame, a little more money in the pocket. If it takes drugs to get there, that's a small risk to take. Money is the incentive, not the damn medals

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    • #17
      Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

      >When will you guys realize the medals are not
      >what these athletes are after. It's the money,
      >the fame, the bling bling. Just look at our most
      >recent champions. Remember the mens 4x1, when
      >they won the gold and showed off their chests,
      >wrapped the flag around their heads and acted
      >like fools. Winning didn't mean a gold medal, it
      >meant acknowledgement, fame, a little more money
      >in the pocket. If it takes drugs to get there,
      >that's a small risk to take. Money is the
      >incentive, not the damn medals



      It's the medals that brings them the fame, though! Can't have one without the other!

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      • #18
        Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

        >This was based on the quote by Richard Pound IOC,
        head of World Anti Doping Agency. Athletics
        Magazine/June 2003- Article s. Nagy Pound
        Quote: "WADA is still after USATF to release
        the names of the athletes involved.They (USATF)
        think they can tough it out. If a National
        Federation stonewalls long enough, it can suceed
        in protecting the athletes found guilty of drug
        use. "

        There is more, but that is the basis of my comments, all the information is available
        if you do your research. Basically the issue is
        not dead , because one of the 13 athletes who won
        a medal they did not deserve. More litagation to
        come.<

        I'll try this one more time. There is no litigation and there will be no litigation. There's a difference between the mouthing off of a blowhard (Pound), and the bringing of a lawsuit. There will be no litigation because WADA's lawyers know perfectly well that a binding arbitration panel found that USATF was justified in not releasing the information they had refused to release. Pound doesn't like this, and he'll probably continue to grumble about it. But the matter has been litigated already and USATF was vindicated.

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        • #19
          Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

          Truth Squad , you are absolutely wrong.

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          • #20
            Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

            There is an interesting article in ESPN the magazine this week. Talks about the struggle between the steroid makers and the steroid testers......ya'll should check it out!

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            • #21
              Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

              >There is an interesting article in ESPN the
              >magazine this week. Talks about the struggle
              >between the steroid makers and the steroid
              >testers......ya'll should check it out!

              That article subtly indicates that the testers might do better if they had more funding. Of course, the leaders of most sports see improved drug testing as leading to less impressive competition and therefore smaller profits. I don't think it's a revolutionary statement to say that sports administrators want only the appearance of drug control rather than real control.

              Of course, we would never catch all the cheats no matter what. But our current situation is something like leaving Congress in charge of policing campaing financing, and it's unlikely to ever really change. History will judge them (and already has).

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              • #22
                Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                Boy, did I hit a hot spot !

                By the way just for the record, I am not afraid to use my name either, it is Steve Barnes in Indianapolis.

                I really hated to say what I did about legalization, or should I more aptly say non-illegalization.

                It just seems so revealing here on this message board, when we hear from athletes and former athletes that have in the midst of things, that drug use is totally a part of the scene, and apparently cannot be erased.

                As for young people, yes we certainly counsel them against all sorts of things, be it alcohol, drug abuse, or sex, but being realistic, those things of course still occur to great degrees.

                So coaches, parents, religious leaders, etc., let's all keep counseling our youth against all these things, and also set a good example in our own lives as well.

                So just have drug use by athletes subject to the same legal restraints as for non-athletes, no more, no less.

                Makes me sad to say all this.

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                • #23
                  Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                  I agree we should be setting a good example for our kids - and the way to do that is to demonstrate to them that we will enforce the laws we set down, not give up because a few cheaters slip through the cracks.

                  I for one have complete confidence in the science behind the testing procedures. If the science is good (and I think we can agree accurately testing for performance enhancers is NOT rocket science) then the problem lies in WHO is being tested, HOW OFTEN they are tested, and most importantly WHAT are the penalties for testing positive. We could test more people more often, but $$ is an issue. There is money in this sport, most of it is just not at the athlete level, so $$ issues can be resolved.

                  This brings us to penalties. 2 year bans are a joke. Lifetime bans will be effective (especially after the first superstar goes down) and would give credibility to the effort.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                    el supremo, we are not that far apart. I guess what I am saying is either do it right, or do not do it. And we are not doing it right. And I agree with you on penalties... lifetime ban is the ONLY answer. Otherwise... SOS, DD.

                    But here is the problem... we only test at the top end ! Every drug/steroid user is not worried about being tested. The 56 foot shotputter whose dream is to throw 60 feet will juice up to get it done. He will never be tested. Also the high school kid throwing 50 that wants to break that school record of 52.

                    So I repeat, thewre is NO SOLUTION except at the very top. But maybe that is better than nothing. So I repeat one last time and then will FOREVER shut up... do it right, or forget it.

                    Every High School State Champ, every NCAA conference winner, etc.... plus widespread random testing of every person on the top 25 US list in every event.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                      The athletes see it one way and the fans see it another. The biggest story we had all winter was the Jones/Montgomery/Francis deal, and the reaction was nothing but negative -- and only because it LOOKED bad.

                      It may be tilting at windmills, but most fans see drug use as cheating, period. All you insiders that know all the top athletes might talk about moral relativism and other such crap, but the average American look at it quite differently. A scene from "Grosse Pointe Blank" sums it up -- the Minnie Driver character screams at the John Cusack character that "There are certain things you just don't DO in a civilized society!"

                      Maybe track wouldn't be in the popularity hole it's in now if Ben Johnson had been busted earlier in his career. Maybe it still would be. But I guarantee you that a lot of people got turned off the moment the stuff hit the fan.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                        I think we give the general public far too much credit for their knowledge and interest in the track drug scene. I marginally follow the Tour de France and international swimming, both of which have been hit by major drug scandals. Their problems only tend to make the sport a little more interesting (is the Irish woman juiced? Who is on EPO?) I think our drug problems don't amount to a hill of beans to those who semi-follow track. I ask kids on my track team whether they watch track on TV and what do they think about the drug issue. They just shrug their shoulders and say some do, some don't and they watch the meet if there is nothing better on MTV. Nobody watches less NFL because of the drug issue. Track's biggest problem is not drugs; it's our inability to market ourselves. We have arguably the best athletes on the planet and we still can't find a way to draw interest our way?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                          >el supremo, we are not that far apart. I guess
                          >what I am saying is either do it right, or do
                          >not do it. And we are not doing it right. And I
                          >agree with you on penalties... lifetime ban is
                          >the ONLY answer. Otherwise... SOS, DD.

                          But
                          >here is the problem... we only test at the top
                          >end ! Every drug/steroid user is not worried
                          >about being tested. The 56 foot shotputter whose
                          >dream is to throw 60 feet will juice up to get it
                          >done. He will never be tested. Also the high
                          >school kid throwing 50 that wants to break that
                          >school record of 52.

                          So I repeat, thewre is
                          >NO SOLUTION except at the very top. But maybe
                          >that is better than nothing. So I repeat one
                          >last time and then will FOREVER shut up... do it
                          >right, or forget it.

                          Every High School State
                          >Champ, every NCAA conference winner, etc.... plus
                          >widespread random testing of every person on the
                          >top 25 US list in every event.

                          How does the NCAA test now? Is it random? At the top is a great way to start, especially if the penalties are severe. Why not make it a lifetime ban or at least a 5 year ban. That's a long time to sit on your ass. Take away any records as well. Once a cheater, always... Almost all the women's records are tainted/untouchable. If you can catch these cheaters and ban them it will send a message to all coaches and athletes..."You're days are numbered" Why do we give them such a BS 2 year ban? Do we really believe the whole "Someone sabotaged my toothpaste or handed me a gatorade or any other BS"? Ban them for life. People would be scared to cheat then. Set the rules, make sure everyone knows them so we don't have any "I took some cold medicine..." What world-class athlete races w/ a cold anyway? Not any I know. I'll stop now 'cuz this will never happen...oh well, one can dream...

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                          • #28
                            Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                            Up to now this line has dealt with "catching" the "cheating athlete". I would suggest that you read Steven Ungerledeider's book "Faust's Gold" - inside the East German Doping Machine. This book reveals how a geration of East German sports doctors used their expertise to cause harm to their patients, in the name of a greater good. We should recognize that "doping" is not always the free choice of the athlete, but may be directed by those individuals who have "power" over the athlete's health, training, and financial well being.
                            At this point in time, there is great disparity amoungst the international sporting bodies as to their enforcement of "doping". A large number of these bodies would prefer to have an international champion than to catch the "cheater". Consider the role politics and financial incentives play in the "athletic drug scene.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                              >>This brings us to penalties. 2
                              >year bans are a joke. Lifetime bans will be
                              >effective (especially after the first superstar
                              >goes down) and would give credibility to the
                              >effort.>>

                              Never going to happen (and that's remembering yesterday's admonishment about use of "never"). Courts in several European countries (Russia and Germany come to mind right away) already found the IAAF's old 4-year bans to be a "restraint of trade" or something like that. In essence, they said that if you're a pro athlete you have a right to ply your trade, and that a 4-year ban was tantamount to being prohibited from ever working again. Punishment wasn't fitting the crime in their eyes. After a couple of those cases went against IAAF, they had no choice but to cut back to the 2-year ban.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Drugs...Detectible or not ??!!!

                                What
                                >world-class athlete races w/ a cold anyway? Not
                                >any I know...

                                400guy1,

                                I guess you don't know any World Class athletes. It is fairly routine for an athlete to compete with, or just coming off of a cold. I am not condoning the cold medicine excuse, because it has been so abused in the past, but athletes do get colds and compete ALL THE TIME, especially when cash is on the line or simply in your contract.

                                Comment

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