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  • #16
    Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

    >Canadian
    >solidarity, eh? Well, I think you're both
    >wrong.

    I didn't have a clue. Just going on complete blind faith in gh. If I would have waited 3 minutes I would have had Walt Murphy's message from his service pointing out the error of my ways(I hope it's ok that I'm putting this up Walt):

    "Jason Lunn finished 9th in the men's 1500-meters, right behind Brian
    Berryhill, but Lunn's time of 3:36.99 betters the IAAF B Qualifying standard of
    3:37.10 for next month's World Championships. Since Lunn won the U.S. title, he
    (for now) replaces Berryhill, who was 2nd at the U.S. Nationals (and who
    achieved the B standard last year), as the lone American representative in the
    1500. Lunn's position at the Worlds is now secure unless two other Americans
    better the A standard of 3:34.90 before the deadline of August13.

    I'm sure I've made that crystal clear to all of you, right? And don't
    hesitate to correct me if I'm misreading the situation.

    wm"

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

      Does that mean that Berryhill was on the team for .31 sec. until Lunn got his qualifier? If so I hope he had some incentives in his contract....

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

        It is kind of sad that a Nation of 280 million people can't find at least three milers who can achieve the "A" Standard.
        Where is Joe Falcon, Steve Scott, and Jim Spivey when you need them.

        Track and Field should conduct a commission to probe why US distance running is not competing. Something is just not right.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

          >It is kind of sad that a Nation of 280 million
          >people can't find at least three milers who can
          >achieve the "A" Standard.
          Where is Joe Falcon, Steve Scott, and Jim Spivey when you need them.>>

          You've got to keep population dynamics in mind. Scott and Spivey were born during the Baby Boom (I think usually definited as 1946-1964), and Falcon only 2 years after. The number of American children then began to fall off markedly (I'm sure somebody could google up the figures if they wanted). With Americans 'always" having had a mindset of run fast, not run long, finding talented people dedicated to running the mile is problematic. If it's only one in X who do so and X is a fraction of the size it was during the Boom years then U.S. mile (and other "marginal" events) standards are going to fall, plain and simple.

          Only 13 Americans EVER have run faster than 3:34.90. To expect there to suddenly be three now is a bit unrealistic.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

            So what does that say about Kenya and Ethiopia?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

              Just had a bad dream. Eamon Coglan (sp?) spelling in not my event) could have beat out best 1500 guys (in 2003) times on a off day while running indoor on a 8+ lap to a mile banked board track.

              Somebody wake me up or at least have Krum. run a 1500 while he's over there to give the US a little respect.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                Should read "our" best 1500 guys.

                Geez that heat on my long run Saturday sure toasted my brain and typing skills.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                  >So what does that say about Kenya and Ethiopia?>

                  Ethiopia doesn't have an A guy either I don't think.

                  As a matter of fact. Morocco, Kenya, France, Portugal, Great Britain, Russia, Spain, Brazil and Ukraine have current A qualifiers I believe.

                  jd

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                    GH,

                    Maybe you guys need to do an article on the sad state of miling in the US like the one you did on the long jump (last year or so ago?). It certainly seemed to jump start that event.
                    Joe Lanzalotto

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                      GH-

                      I don't buy the baby boom theory. Other sports are attracting plenty of talent. Even sports like swimming where there is no money to be made has talent.

                      We have talent coming out of the high school ranks, but then something happens to prevent further significant improvement.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                        >GH-

                        I don't buy the baby boom theory. Other
                        >sports are attracting plenty of talent. Even
                        >sports like swimming where there is no money to
                        >be made has talent.

                        No money. I think not.

                        FINA Swimming World Cup 2001 -2002

                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        FINAL PRIZE MONEY RANKING

                        MEN

                        1 MOSES Ed USA 1048 2:03.17 200 breast Berlin us$ 50,000.-
                        2 LISOGOR Oleg UKR 1039 26.20 50 breast Berlin us$ 30,000.-
                        3 SLOUDNOV Roman RUS 1025 57.73 100 breast Stockholm us$ 20,000.-


                        WOMEN

                        1 MORAVCOVA M. SVK 1027 56.55 100 fly Berlin us$ 50,000.-
                        2 KLOCHKOVA Yana UKR 1024 4:27.83 400 im Paris us$ 30,000.-
                        3 IGELSTRÖM Emma SWE 1016 30.43 50 breast Stockholm us$ 20,000.-

                        The only reason I even point this out is because the general public has "exactly" the same perception of track and field. I think all the previously amateur sports that are heavily connected to the olympics suffer from this perception.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                          What is the name of the top British miler. What is his times and ranking.
                          Surely the land that produced both Coe and Cram can still produce some top milers.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                            http://www2.iaaf.org/Results/lists/2003 ... /1500.html

                            Whiteman & East

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                              >>No money. I
                              >think not.

                              FINA Swimming World Cup 2001
                              >-2002

                              -----------------------------------------
                              >--------------------------------------
                              FINAL
                              >PRIZE MONEY RANKING

                              MEN

                              1 MOSES Ed USA
                              >1048 2:03.17 200 breast Berlin us$ 50,000.-
                              2
                              >LISOGOR Oleg UKR 1039 26.20 50 breast Berlin us$
                              >30,000.-
                              3 SLOUDNOV Roman RUS 1025 57.73 100
                              >breast Stockholm us$ 20,000.-


                              WOMEN

                              1
                              >MORAVCOVA M. SVK 1027 56.55 100 fly Berlin us$
                              >50,000.-
                              2 KLOCHKOVA Yana UKR 1024 4:27.83 400
                              >im Paris us$ 30,000.-
                              3 IGELSTRÖM Emma SWE 1016
                              >30.43 50 breast Stockholm us$ 20,000.-

                              The
                              >only reason I even point this out is because the
                              >general public has "exactly" the same
                              >perception of track and field. I think all the
                              >previously amateur sports that are heavily
                              >connected to the olympics suffer from this
                              >perception.

                              Thanks for pointing out that there is money to be made swimming. My point was that, like Track, relative to other sports there isn't a lot of money to be had. Unless you are among the top 10-20 in the world in an event it is very difficult to make a living at the sport. When you compare this to other sports - baseball, basketball, football the odds that you wll be able to make a living at the sport are very small.

                              Money is not the incentive for most swimmers nor is it the incentive for most track athletes. If an individual has tremendous athletic ability and is thinking about money he probably won't give track or swimming much thought - the odds of making money in these sports are against him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                                >GH-

                                I don't buy the baby boom theory. Other
                                >sports are attracting plenty of talent. Even
                                >sports like swimming where there is no money to
                                >be made has talent.

                                We have talent coming out
                                >of the high school ranks, but then something
                                >happens to prevent further significant
                                >improvement.>

                                I don't buy the undeveloped talent argument. There's a pretty decent argument to be made that being an elite (close to 4:00) HS miler doesn't mean anything other than those particular kids developed at an earlier age than other kids who ultimately ended up running faster in their adult life. This has nothing to do with training or coaching. Simply in a physical sense. For the most part the top US milers were good to very good HS kids but not on the cusp of breaking 4:00.

                                1500 METERS
                                3:29.77 ........ Sydney Maree (Pum) 85
                                3:31.01 ........... Jim Spivey (AW) 88
                                3:31.52 ...... Steve Holman (ReebE) 97
                                3:31.76 ......... Steve Scott (Tig) 85
                                3:31.93 .. David Krummenacker (adi) 02
                                3:33.1 .............. Jim Ryun (Ks) 67
                                3:33.6 ......... Joe Falcon (Asics) 90
                                3:33.72 ...... Seneca Lassiter (Ar) 99
                                3:33.89 ...... Paul McMullen (Sauc) 01
                                3:33.99 .......... Steve Lacy (AFS) 80
                                .............. Todd Harbour (SMTC) 82

                                MILE
                                3:47.69 .......... Steve Scott (S4) 82
                                3:48.83 ......... Sydney Maree (AA) 81
                                3:49.31 ........ Joe Falcon (Asics) 90
                                3:49.80 ........... Jim Spivey (AW) 86
                                3:50.34 ........ Todd Harbour (Bay) 81
                                3:50.40 ...... Steve Holman (ReebE) 97
                                3:50.84 ............ Tom Byers (AW) 82
                                3:51.1 .............. Jim Ryun (Ks) 67
                                3:51.34 ....... John Gregorek (Gtn) 82
                                3:51.39 ........ Richie Harris (AW) 84

                                Contrast the above list with the HS list and you see a spotty record with some successes (Centrowitz, Lindgren, Ryun and Liquori); some not so successes (Danielson, Powell, Hall, Webb) and some who fall in the middle. I'm not ready to give up on Webb or Hall just yet but I don't hold a lot of hope that they will improve much, if at all, from their best HS efforts.


                                1500 METERS
                                3:38.26 .. *Alan Webb (South Lakes, Reston, Va) 01
                                3:39.0 ... *Jim Ryun (East, Wichita, Ks) 64
                                3:42.70 ... Ryan Hall (Big Bear, Big Bear City, Ca) 01
                                3:43.18 ....Jonathon Riley (Brookline, Ma) 97
                                3:43.4 ...Centrowitz (Power Memorial, NYC, NY) 73
                                3:43.81 ....Donald Sage (York, Elmhurst, Il) 00
                                3:44.43 ....John Quade (Woodinville, Wa) 85
                                3:44.6 ....Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, Spokane, Wa) 64
                                Vince Draddy (Iona Prep, New Rochelle, NY) 79
                                3:45.5 ... Jason Pyrah (Willard, Mo) 87

                                MILE
                                3:53.43 .. Alan Webb (South Lakes, Reston, Va) 01
                                3:55.3 .. Jim Ryun (East, Wichita, Ks) 65
                                3:59.4 .. Tim Danielson (Chula Vista, Ca) 66
                                3:59.8 Marty Liquori (Essex Cath, Newark, NJ) 67
                                4:00.29 Donald Sage (York, Elmhurst, Il) 00
                                4:01.5 ... Gerry Lindgren (Rogers, Spokane, Wa) 64
                                4:02.01 Sharif Karie' (W Springfield, Va) 97
                                4:02.4 Richard Kimball (DeLaSalle, Ca) 74
                                4:02.7 . Matt Centrowitz (Power Memorial, NYC) 73
                                i ..... Thom Hunt (Henry, San Diego, Ca) 76
                                .. Andy Powell (Ames, North Easton, Ma) 99

                                To gh's point it may be better to have a larger pot of 4:07 - 4:15 guys to have one or two elite international runners pop through than to have a consistent stream of one or two HSers per year knocking on the 4:00 door.

                                jd

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