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Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

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  • #46
    Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

    Coe, Ovett, Cram all ran both. I see
    >Krum as the same type of runner. He is in the
    >postion to be able to have one of the top 10 in
    >both this year and maybe even double next year.
    >What a great boost that would give American
    >middle distance running.

    This brings up several questions.

    When was the last time a top runner attempted the 800/1500 double in a major championship? Coe in 84?

    Is it due to the meet schedules that it's not common or just that more athletes specialize in only 1 event?

    What are the 800 times of the top US 1500/milers besides Krum? They all seem to be 1:47/1:48 types at best. This can't bode well for success in 1500 on the world stage. Any thoughts?

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    • #47
      Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

      Good Point but he's not exactly setting the world on fire at the 800 this outdoor season either. His World Indoor 800 was impressive but we all know the World Indoors and the World Outdoors are not the same thing. Yes he is one of the best 800 runners in the world and I'm all for him concentrating on the 800 this year and next if he want to. I was just assuming that at some point he will move up to the 1500 since being a top 10 1500 runner would be more lucrative than a top 10 800 runner. But he's better off being the number 3 800 guy than the number 10 miler, so if he doesn't think he can move up as successfully than by all means stay put at the 800. Seems to me a 3:31 1500 and a 1:44 are on par with one another these days.

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      • #48
        Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

        El Supremo, my first love was they 800 and still has a special place in my heart, so I definately don't want to force anyone out of the 800 but from the general talk I have heard on this board i thought it was just a matter of time before he moved up. If he doesn't want to fine with me, I'll enjoy having at top 800 runner for a while.

        Johnny Gray and George Kersh never did commit to 1500 either.

        Said Aoutia attempted the 800 /1500 double in a major championships but for the life onme I can't place the championships. Anyone care to help?

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        • #49
          Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

          The US 1500m runners (other than Krum) have abandoned the 800m - period. I believe I noted on an earlier board that only Stember (1:47) had broken 1:49 - yes 1:49!!! prior to the U.S. Championships. Given that the 1500m final at the championships is ALWAYS so damn slow - you would think some of these guys may actually want to do a little speed work for the last lap.

          It is frustrating watching Lunn/Berryhill trying to run fast in Europe, knowing they can't go 3:32 off 1:48-1:49 speed.

          I believe the 1500m Oly team is wide open, and some 800m runners are likely eyeing a move up next year - certainly easier to make the 1500m for Athens than the 800m with all our young talent. Anyone know if Burley, Sylvester, or any of our 800m guys have run a decent 1500/mile in their past??

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          • #50
            Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

            Ultrarunner - I was an 800m guy too - man I loved that race. The warm prickly feeling you got in the last 150m as your body shut down. Still my favorite race to watch on the track (hammer rules the field events for me).

            You make a good point though - at what point would Krum consider moving up? I would say if he doesn't make the final he would (not likely, though). If he finishes 5th or 6th that would be interesting. If he medals this year I can't imagine him moving up.

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            • #51
              Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

              Training for the 800 was brutal. I still get sick to my stomach when I remember the feeling of the lactic acid building up in my system as I did those race pace 500 repeats or those endless fast 200's. It was one of the best bad feelings in the world.

              I got hooked as a jr. high runner watching Coe's amazing 1:41 and then in High School watching Robinson and Gray and Earl Jones and that amazing 1984 Olympic trials and then watching Cruz and Gray battle in Europe over then next few years.

              By college I had move to the distance races (as every short white is expected to do) but got to run with George Kersh for a couple of years and knew Gerald Masterson (US Top 10 800 runner in mid/late 70's).

              Though I run the real long stuff now (marathons and ultarmarathons) I'd still rather watch a good 800 than any other event. And its nice to know that if one of my marathons ever comes down to the last 800 meters I'm good to go (LOL).

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              • #52
                Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                Today's US milers just lack speed. A top international 1500m runner goes through the first 800meters only a few seconds slower than Lunn's 800 meters PR. No wonder Berryhill/Lunn are dying at the end of these European races.

                Lunn is still basically a NCAA runner.

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                • #53
                  Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                  OK, just to clear things up:

                  Krummenacker: 1:43:92/3:31.91
                  Lassiter: 1:45:51/3:33.72
                  McMullen: 1:45.96/3:33.89
                  Stember: 1:46.2/3:35.11
                  Jennings: 1:46.99/3:35.9
                  Berryhill: 1:46.98/3:35.56
                  Webb: 1:47.74/3:38.26
                  Lunn: 1:48.78/3:36.74

                  SO... in sum... out of our top guys (or who should be our top guys) right now, most are under 1:47. Lunn I'm sure is a 1:46'er but hasn't run the 800 in years.

                  What's interested is how young all these guys were when they ran their best. McMullen was like 22, Lassiter in his early 20s, Jennings had his best seasons as a freshman and redshirt sophomore, Stember as a junior, Webb of course was at his best in high school, Berryhill is coming close to his previous best season this season and Lunn has definitely gotten better over time...

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                  • #54
                    Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                    Berryhill's gone 1:46.0 (Mtn. West Conf. meet 2001)

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                    • #55
                      Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                      Other than getting a little older the reason I think it may be wise for Krum to make the move up would be that he would then have one of th fastest 800 times of the world's 15 guys. This would have to give him a bit of an edge (at least psychological).

                      If he does well at the world's this year (medal). He will have a tough decision. This decision would have to then take into account his experiences yet to come in his 15s this year.

                      His 3:31 last year is very impressive. And while it is still several seconds off the WR, after his impressive 800 running this year he would likely improve upon this considerably next year.

                      Also, his 800 speed/strength should translate well to slower more tactical 1500 championship racing.

                      As Ultrarunner pointed out the comparison of Coe training with 400 guys is a good one. I think after the 3:31 last year Krum may be thinking of this as a preparation year to get ready for the 15 next year. If this is true it sounds like a great idea.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                        Jennings ran 1:46.83 at the Cardinal Qualifier in '01, beating his PR from the USATF final in '98 as a frosh.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                          Lunn ran 1:48.2 in 2000 and did run a 800 in Stockholm last year in 1:48.42. Wasn't Stember focusing on the 800 the past couple of years and yet his PR is back from the 2000 NCAAs.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                            If Lunn indeed manages to make the finals at this year's world championship it will be highlight of his career so far.

                            The National Championship 1500meter final was a national disgrace! Lunn should be ashamed he won in 3:48.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                              Annoying Bastard - extreme.

                              Are you Annoying Bastard's evil twin?

                              American 1500meter running has been poor this year. Still, why are you so angry! It is just a silly race around a track afterall!

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                              • #60
                                Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                                I have a feeling that Lunn is peaking.
                                Hopefully, he can run a 3:34 and get the "real" qualifying time.

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