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  • #61
    Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

    Time is running out for Lunn. Just three weeks to get the "A" standard.

    Thick..thick...thick

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    • #62
      Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

      >Time is running out for Lunn. Just three weeks to
      >get the "A" standard.

      Thick..thick...thick>

      What does he need the "A" standard for? Unless two other Americans get it he don't need it.

      jd

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

        Getting the "A" standard is a matter of personal and national pride. Who say Berryhill won't get the "A" standard. Many think he is a better miler than Lunn.

        Comment


        • #64
          Krummenacker and the 1500

          What is missing in most of the posts about whether Krummenacker should move up to the 1500/mile is that it's evident he really doesn't like the longer event. I tried mightily to get him to run the Bowerman Mile at this year's Pre Classic, and his coach, Luiz deOliveira, made it clear that if it were a 1500, Krum "might" run, but that the extra curve was truly not to David's liking. I'd suggest that if he's put off by the additional 109 meters it takes to run a mile, it's unlikely he'll ever really develop the attitude of the long middle-distance runner. That's not to say he won't or can't run fast at the distance, but to make it his primary focus? I don't see that happening.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

            Maybe somebody should explain to him the financial implications of being able to run a 800m 1:41.5 vs being able to run a mile in 3:43.5. In other words, just short of the world record in each event. He seems equally likely (or unlikely) to achieve either of those goals, but if he could do one or the other, there's no doubt that knocking on the door of the mile record would be much more lucrative for him than doing the same in the 800.

            Or is one of the last good runners of the professional era who is in this primarily for fun?

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

              Lets be honest, the Mile has a lot more prestige than the 800 meters. Most remember when the first 4 minute mile was run, but few know when the first sub 1:45 800 meters was run.

              Krummenacker would be better off running the 1500 meters.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Croatia 1500 Berryhill/Lunn

                >Getting the "A" standard is a matter of
                >personal and national pride. Who say Berryhill
                >won't get the "A" standard. Many think he is a
                >better miler than Lunn.
                >

                You are correct. However if Berryhill gets the 'A' standard and no one else does he stays home and watches Lunn in the WC's in Paris. There is no timetable for Lunn getting the 'A' standard. It's a very nice to have but he doesn't 'need' it.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                  In reply to TJ.
                  Said Aouita, was also on record as saying that he hated the mile. This never stopped him from running a good 1500-2000-3000-2 mile-5000-10000m (800-steeple in there as well). I am not saying that DK can hope to achieve the same, but as long as they run the 1500m at international competition, then who really cares if he doesn't want to run the mile. I am sure any athlete would rather have a medal from the OG’s than say he has run sub4 or sub 3:50. Anoter point here; with the A standard being so hard now (3:34.9) would it not be better to have a 1500m at Pre rather than a mile, thus given the most possible chances for some of the guys to achieve the standard? You have the best field lined up in the US and if there ever were a chance to run 3:34.9, it would be at your meet. Persevering history is one thing, but without helping today's fleet of foot, there will be no one around in the future to care about the history of the sport.

                  Bring on the BOWERMAN METRIC MILE

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                    I find it staggering that a 3:53 mile (3:34 1500m) is the A standard. This basically eliminates a whole contingent of NCAA runners from competition. Are we now suppose to shrug are shoulders when someones runs a 3:53 mile and say "not bad". Jason Lunn's PR is now the new qualifying "A' standard. What are they trying to prove.
                    How are smaller coutries like Japan and Sweden suppose to get qualifiers.
                    This new standard basically assures a nearly all African final.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                      why shouldn't their be an all african final if they are the 12 quickest men in the world they desreve to be there. And they are who I want to watch race for the title, if the racing is happening at 3.30 pace, then anyone 3.35ish doesn't have a show, they are just poeple in the background, why not stack the field with people who can win.
                      Also 3.34 is quicker than 3.53 equivilant, the difference between a mile and 1500m is approx 17 secs for most people. i.e El G 3.26, and 3.43. Steve Cram, 3.29 and 3.46. Peter Snell 3.37, and 3.54. John Walker 3.32, and 3.49.
                      That means the 3.34 standard is equivalent to roughly 3.51-52 for a mile. 3.53 is about a 3.36 which most usa athletes have done.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                        Interest in the mile will continue to erode in this country if no American's make the 1500m finals. Who are we suppose to route for?
                        At least Steve Scott, Jim Spivey, Joe Falcon, and Steve Holman made things interesting for the US in the World Championships. Heck I would even throw in Jason Pyrah in this list.

                        Fast Fact:
                        Did you know Steve Scott broke the 3:50 mile six times in his career. With the possible exception of Krummenacker will we ever see another US runner post a sub 3:50 mile. As the Africans get faster the American's are actually responding by getting slower.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                          >With the possible exception of Krummenacker will we ever see another US runner post a sub 3:50 mile.<

                          Ever is a long, long time.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                            >I find it staggering that a 3:53 mile (3:34
                            >1500m) is the A standard. This basically
                            >eliminates a whole contingent of NCAA runners
                            >from competition. Are we now suppose to shrug are
                            >shoulders when someones runs a 3:53 mile and say
                            >"not bad". Jason Lunn's PR is now the new
                            >qualifying "A' standard. What are they trying to
                            >prove.
                            How are smaller coutries like Japan and
                            >Sweden suppose to get qualifiers.
                            This new
                            >standard basically assures a nearly all African
                            >final.

                            Why are you assuming every country has to be represented in every event at the World Champs? If you can't run a 3:34 nowadays, you don't stand much of a chance of making the final anyway, so I don't see how softening the standard would affect the number of Africans who make the final.
                            I don't see why eliminating NCAA runners from World Champs is a bad thing, either... They just don't belong there - all would be left miles behind in the heats.
                            I myself think some of the IAAF qualifying standards are too hard. But I do tend to agree with the philosophy - World Champs are for the elite. There are millions of local, national, regional and other championships for the second- and third-tier athletes. It is not anybody's right to compete in the big one - you have to earn it.
                            BTW, here is the list of people who had the A qualifier last year (up to 3 per country):
                            3:26.89 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14 09 1974 1 Zürich 16 08 2002
                            3:27.91 Bernard Lagat KEN 12 12 1974 2 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:30.07 Rui Silva POR 03 08 1977 3 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:30.24 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05 06 1983 4 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:30.88 William Chirchir KEN 06 02 1979 5 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:31.45 Driss Maazouzi FRA 15 10 1969 6 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:31.93 David Krummenacker USA 24 05 1975 2 Stockholm 16 07
                            3:32.03 Mehdi Baala FRA 17 08 1978 5 Bruxelles 30 08 2002
                            3:32.37 Vyacheslav Shabunin RUS 27 09 1969 7 Bruxelles 30 08
                            3:32.43 Anthony Whiteman GBR 13 11 1971 7 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:32.93 Reyes Estévez ESP 02 08 1976 9 Bruxelles 30 08 2002
                            3:33.66 Abdelkader Hachlaf MAR 03 07 1979 8 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:33.72 Juan Carlos Higuero ESP 03 08 1978 10 Bruxelles 30 08
                            3:33.93 Fouad Chouki FRA 01 10 1978 11 Bruxelles 30 08 2002
                            3:34.02 Hudson Santos de Souza BRA 25 02 1977 9 Monaco 19 07 2002
                            3:34.89 John Mayock GBR 26 10 1970 8 Berlin 06 09 2002

                            And the list for this year:
                            3:29.76 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14 09 1974 1 Roma 11 07 2003
                            3:30.97 Mehdi Baala FRA 17 08 1978 1 Paris 04 07 2003
                            3:31.17 Cornelius Chirchir KEN 05 06 1983 1 Ostrava 12 06 2003
                            3:31.40 Bernard Lagat KEN 12 12 1974 2 Paris 04 07 2003
                            3:31.70 William Chirchir KEN 06 02 1979 2 Ostrava 12 06 2003
                            3:32.01 Ivan Heshko UKR 19 08 1979 3 Ostrava 12 06 2003
                            3:32.86 Reyes Estévez ESP 02 08 1976 3 Roma 11 07 2003
                            3:32.97 Rui Silva POR 03 08 1977 5 Tríkala 24 06 2003
                            3:33.05 Fouad Chouki FRA 01 10 1978 4 Paris 04 07 2003
                            3:34.19 Juan Carlos Higuero ESP 03 08 1978 5 Roma 11 07 2003
                            3:34.60 Kevin Sullivan CAN 20 03 1974 2 Portland, OR 17 05 2003
                            3:34.71 Vyacheslav Shabunin RUS 27 09 1969 9 Tríkala 24 06 2003
                            3:34.74 Tarek Boukensa ALG 19 11 1981 3 Zagreb 07 07 2003
                            3:34.76 Gert-Jan Liefers NED 26 09 1978 4 Zagreb 07 07 2003

                            On each list, half of the men are not African (and that's if you include the naturalized Frenchmen in the 'African' category). Yes, the Africans dominate at the very top of the list - but that will be the case whatever the standard is. Instead of whining, the US runners should just get to work to try and run the low-3:30s that are needed to get anywhere these days.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                              <<Why are you assuming every country has to be represented in every event at the World Champs? If you can't run a 3:34 nowadays, you don't stand much of a chance of making the final anyway, so I don't see how softening the standard would affect the number of Africans who make the final.
                              I don't see why eliminating NCAA runners from World Champs is a bad thing, either... They just don't belong there - all would be left miles behind in the heats.>>

                              Who says a 3:35 runner won't have a break through performance at the world championships and make the finals. Maybe the standard is 3:34 in order to thin the field.
                              It is interesting to note the top US milers from 10 to 15 years ago would have no problem making the standard. Remember, the summer Jim Spivey ran two sub 3:50 miles within a month. It was just a decade ago that Joe Falcon was ranked 2nd in the world in the 1500.
                              For some reason today runners like Lunn lack the extra gear that Scott and Spivey had. Spivey in a recent interview said his generation had top Africans in college system, which forced American's to run faster. "When a African runner posted a 13:20 in the 5000 meters American runners started saying, hey may 14:00 is not good enough anymore!", Spivey said in this interview a few years ago.
                              Steven Holman was the last American to be ranked among the world's ten best milers.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                                I believe the problem among our 1500m guys exists (and has for the past 10+ years) because their event at nationals has become a predictable tactical affair. Knowing this, most top 1500 guys (I've trained w/2 in the past decade) train for a 3:40-3:45 pace with a kick. Can't blame them too much. If you were Berryhill, Lunn, Webb, etc. and wanted to make the Olympic team next year what type of race would you train for???

                                The result is what we have now - guys who can't run 3:30-3:35 because they weren't training for it.

                                Compare this to the 800m, where anyone wanting to make the Oly team will have to show up in 1:44 shape (World class). The steeple next year will likely go in 8:15ish, with 2 other guys under 8:20. No kicking in the steeple - the top guys won't allow themselves to be put "at risk" in a kickers race.

                                It's not that our top 1500m guys can't run fast times - they just don't HAVE to to make a national squad. The answer? A guy(s) willing to bypass the kicker's training and train for 3:32 races. Webb is the only guy (save Krum) with this proven talent potential currently. Then again Krum will take a kickers race if he moves up at the trials next year.

                                Expect an equally slow tactical race next year at nationals, and guys therefore inadaquately trained for the "true" racing season to follow.

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