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  • #76
    Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

    I don't recall if anyone has mentioned it, but one reason why people could and should be going for the A standard this summer is that anything they run in 2003 will count as a qualifier for the OG next year. The dynamics of the qualifying process next year could be changed radically if there are two A qualifiers going into the season.

    I agree that this seems unlikely to happen. If nobody has approached that time yet, there's no reason for us to think they're going to do it in August or September, at the end of a long season. My point is only that there is a good reason for people to keep trying, whether or not it affects this year's World Championships.

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    • #77
      Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

      Instead of having qualifying heats in the Olympic trails why not base qualifying on times. Only invite runners who have run at least 3:37 for 1500meter to the trails. Of course then we would have only about a half dozen runners at the starting line.
      The problem with a slow kickers race is that sometimes marginal runners beat out more deserving athletes. This is what happened to Jim Spivey in the 88 trails when he lost to a relative unknown named Mark Deedy(?) for the third spot on the Olympic squad. In this case a 3:58 miler beat out a 3:49 miler for the Olympic team. Mark eventually got the qualifying standard for the Olympics, but predictably did not make the finals in the Olympics.

      Maybe there should be a rule if an American runs a 3:32 for the 1500 meters he is automatically exempt from the trails and has a place on the team. If two others get the qualifying time then there is no need for any trails. This would prevent hack 4-minute milers from qualifying.

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      • #78
        Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

        >Instead of having qualifying heats in the Olympic
        >trails why not base qualifying on times. Only
        >invite runners who have run at least 3:37 for
        >1500meter to the trails. Of course then we would
        >have only about a half dozen runners at the
        >starting line.
        The problem with a slow kickers
        >race is that sometimes marginal runners beat out
        >more deserving athletes. This is what happened to
        >Jim Spivey in the 88 trails when he lost to a
        >relative unknown named Mark Deedy(?) for the
        >third spot on the Olympic squad. In this case a
        >3:58 miler beat out a 3:49 miler for the Olympic
        >team. Mark eventually got the qualifying standard
        >for the Olympics, but predictably did not make
        >the finals in the Olympics.

        Maybe there should
        >be a rule if an American runs a 3:32 for the 1500
        >meters he is automatically exempt from the trails
        >and has a place on the team. If two others get
        >the qualifying time then there is no need for any
        >trails. This would prevent hack 4-minute milers
        >from qualifying.



        I disagree. Part of what makes miling so fun to watch is strategy. Running smart and trying to run the race to take advantage of an individual's strengths is what its all about. Otherwise, why not just put a rabbit in championship competitions and have the runner who can best hold the fastest pace for 1500 m. be the winner?

        If we don't have the athletes with the ability to make the standards we start going down the list anyway. Those who have run the standards get the spot.

        An athlete who has trouble making the US team (fast or slow pace) doesn't stand a chance to place in the WCs or Olympics.

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        • #79
          Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

          "The problem with a slow kickers race is that sometimes marginal runners beat out more deserving athletes"

          Not more deserving - just faster PR's. If Spivey had kept the pace "hot" in '88, he would have made the team. If Webb show up next year in 3:33 shape and end up 4th in a tactical affair - he doesn't deserve to make the team. Krum could likely time trial a 3:37 (60 58 57 42 splits) because he is in such good shape. If I were Berryhill/Lunn, etc. I would be trying to get into 3:37 time trial shape and take my chances leading rather than facing getting outkicked by ??.

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          • #80
            Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

            >The problem with a slow kickers race is that sometimes marginal runners beat out more deserving athletes.<

            You are making an assumption that a "marginal" runner who is capable of making the Olympic "A" standard is more deserving than a runner who can run three or four seconds faster. That is not at all clear. If you can't kick well enough to be in the top three in the trials, what's going to happen in the Games? In the first place, the early rounds are often slow kickers' races. A non-kicker isn't going to survive. Even in the final, consider the fact that only two OG finals in history have ever gone faster than the current "A" standard, and as recently as 1992, the winning time in the Olympic 1500m final was 3:40+.

            To me the most deserving guy is the one who proves what he can do in the trials. And kicking is an important part of what an Olympic 1500m runner has to be able to do.

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            • #81
              Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

              Spivey had a off race that day. Spivey already had made Olympic and World Championship finals before. In fact he got a bronze medal in the 1987 world championships in the 1500 meters.
              Spivey could kick with the best of them.
              If he made the 88 team I am sure he would of made the Olympic finals. Two years after his disappointment at the 88 Olympic trails Spivey still could run 3:50+ for the mile.

              Spivey's loss at the Olympic trails is just one of those flukes that happen in all sports.

              I consider Jason Pyrahs advancement to the Olympics finals in 2000 and Krummenacker's 3:31 last year the bright spots in US 1500 meter running in the last 5 years. Obviously, not much has happened in US 1500 meter running since Falcon and Holman were running with the world's super elite.

              If Pyrah is stil running he will be one of the last US milers competing that was born in the sixties. According to the internet all records of Pyrahs running stops at 2002 where he placed second at the tyson indoor invitational. I have no idea if he is planning to attend the 04 trails. Has a 35 year old miler ever made the US Olympic team? I think Steve Scott was around that age when he made his last Olympic team.

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              • #82
                Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                No disrespect towards Pyrah, but his 1500 PR was only 3:35.21, and that was in 1996. After that his best was 3:36.70 in 2000. Good marks, but certainly not earth shattering.

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                • #83
                  Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                  Yeah, but Pyrah still made the 1500 meters final at the 2000 Olympics. That alone makes him better than either Berryhill or Lunn.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                    I know there has been no out right critiscim of Lunn, Berryhill etc
                    but remember, one must be careful not to blame the current athletes for not being good enough, they are out their trying to become the best/fastest 1500/mile runners they can be.
                    If they are not as talented, or don't have the ability to be as good as scott and others it is not their fault.
                    As much as we want to we can't make people be good milers, we have to wait until some come along.

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                    • #85
                      Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                      Lunn and Berryhill are amazing athletes compared to any of us. However, they are less amazing when they go against the world's very best.
                      I think we all know Lunn and Berryhill have at least a few 3:52 miles in them. They can at least be in striking distance of Canadian Kevin Sullivan.

                      Question of the Day:
                      Does anyone know where I can get the Disney film "The four minute mile". Amazon does not carry the movie.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                        Andy,

                        I agree with the fact that Jason and Brian are great athletes, but how can you compare them with someone who was 5th at the Olympic Games and the most dominating miler in the Northern Hemisphere in years. I don't think you're giving Kevin enough of what he deserves!

                        M

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                        • #87
                          Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                          I said they could be in striking distance of Sullivan not beat him just yet. Sullivan is currently North America's best miler.
                          That could all of change if Krummenacker decides to run the 1500/mile.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                            >I said they could be in striking distance of
                            >Sullivan not beat him just yet. Sullivan is
                            >currently North America's best miler.
                            That could
                            >all of change if Krummenacker decides to run the
                            >1500/mile.

                            They go head to head for the first? time on the 5th.
                            http://www.dngalan.com/startlistor2003/intevents.pdf
                            That is assuming that Sully is recovered from his achilles problem.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                              Is Sully running in Paris?

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                              • #90
                                Re: Krummenacker and the 1500

                                >Is Sully running in Paris?


                                yes

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