Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

[Guest]

Re: Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

HOW IT GETS TO AN ATHLETES SYSTEM SHOULD BE THE MAIN QUESTION TO DETERMINE WHETHER TO BAN AN ATHLETE FOR LIFE. JUST BECAUSE AN ATHLETE TESTED POSITIVE FOR THG OR ANY DRUG, DOES NOT MEAN SHE/HE IS GUILTY OF TAKING IT. THERE ARE INSTANCES WHEN AN ATHLETE TAKES SOMETHING NOT KNOWING IT CONTAINS A BANNED SUBSTANCE [CASING POINT: FIGURE SKATING RUSSIAN PAIRS - BEREZNAYA AND ZIGURELEZA, SORRY FOR SPELLLING]. BEREZNAYA TOOK A COLD PILL NOT KNOWING IT CONTAINED BANNED SUBSTANCE. THEY WERE, I BELIEVE, STRIPPED OF THEIR MEDALS AND WERE BANNED FOR 6 MONTHS BUT NOT FOR LIFE BECAUSE IT IS AN HONEST MISTAKE. MY POINT IS YOU JUST DON'T BAN SOMEONE FOR LIFE IF HE/SHE IS TESTED POSITIVE FOR A BANNED DRUG. HOW THE DRUG GOT TO THE PERSON'S SYSTEM SHOULD BE THE DETERMINANT FACTOR FOR BANNING SOMEONE.

[Guest]

I agree with you

I am french and here, the sport culture seems to be quit clean but we saw (in the last world championship) that it is not true ; there are also athletes who cheat here and i think that they must pay for these cheatings and their doping entourage too !! (especially dealers and doctors).

(excuse me for my poor english...)

[vaulter83]

Re: I agree with you

your english is better then some americans.

[Guest]

Re: Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

I still think there are unintended consequences here. The litigation in this is going to get ugly. I prefer it just like back in the day--4 year ban strike one, life on strike two. 4 years is enough deterrent (for some, that's a whole career).

Here's a possible scenario. What if a high profile superstar, who's broken tons of records, tests positive for a steriod? What if the athlete claims his innocence, showing proof of mismanagement at the meet where he was tested? As a result of the proof (overwhelming, by the way!), the public believes and overwhelmingly supports this legend.

As you can see, I'm putting Butch Reynolds (the proof and mismanagement part) and Pete Rose (the public support part!) as one person. That will be a possible scenario if this law comes into effect.

[Guest]

Re: Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

I don't believe in lifetime bans for a first offense. There's just too much that can go wrong. But I do think we should go back to a 4-year suspension for a first offense, and then lifetime for the second.

[Guest]

Re: I agree with you

"Re: I agree with you
posted by: vaulter83
Posted Thursday, Oct 23 at 3:17 AM
Thu, Oct 23 at 12:17:42 PDT
your english is better then some americans."

Isn't it better to say "thAn" some americans ? :-)

[Guest]

Re: I agree with you

doh!

[Guest]

Re: I agree with you

Assuming such a plan goes through and hopefully it won't because law guy is right it will create a terribly uneven playing field. See the thread(s) we had post-Paris relative to penalties.

The IAAF has already discovered that in international courts of law (at least in Europe) that even a 4-year penalty isn't unacceptable let alone life. So the IAAF isn't likely to follow suit on this and it's doubtul many/any other countries will either. Even after its national disaster Canada didn't take such a draconian step.

Hopefully this is just a good PR move by USATF. When they're told they can't do it they can say "aw shucks, we did everything we could and they wouldn't let us; you can't blame us any more."

I don't want Dwain Chambers running against the U.S. again in 2005 when U.S. sprinter X can't.

[Guest]

Re: I agree with you

>The IAAF has already discovered
>that in international courts of law (at least in
>Europe) that even a 4-year penalty isn't
>unacceptable let alone life.

But I don't understand why it's unacceptable. The athletes who cheat are defrauding meet promoters and corporations out of hundreds of thousands (even millions) of dollars. In the real world, that would be grand, grand larceny at its finest, and the consequences would put the guilty party IN PRISON for life. A lifetime ban from the sport you swindled starts to look pretty good.

I don't buy the restraint of trade arguments, either. If you cheat, you aren't wanted in the trade anymore anyway. There's more to life than running fast. Go find something else that you can do honestly.

[Asterix]

Re: I agree with you

I don't buy the restraint of trade
>arguments, either. If you cheat, you aren't
>wanted in the trade anymore anyway. There's more
>to life than running fast. Go find something
>else that you can do honestly.

I'm in agreement as well. If a lawyer gets disbarred or a doctor loses their medical license, even for something that isn't illegal to the rest of society, would anyone feel pity they can't practice their trade anymore?

[Guest]

Re: I agree with you

>I don't buy the restraint of trade arguments, either.<

And neither do I. But the European Union has these goofy rules, and the courts in Germany, Russia, and possibly other places, have made it clear that two years is the max that the IAAF can impose for first offenses. From what I understand, the IAAF hates this and so does WADA, but their lawyers have told them there's nothing they can do about it.

[MDC]

Re: Zero Tolerance and Potential Lifetime Ban

I went back and reread the USATF press release and I find myself in strong agreement with it. After reading most the posts, I wondered if a lifetime ban for accidental drug use was fair. But that's not what the zero tolerace policy is about. It's for steroids, and I find myself strongly in support of a lifetime ban for steroid use even for a first time offender. As the press release notes, the USATF said it will explore the legalities of such a ban so I'll leave the lawyering to the USATF for now. But I simply cannot find any reason to allow an athlete or coach who knowingly takes steroids to earn their living in the sport. After all, it's not a one time drug like cold medicine or other banned stimulants which might provide a temporary advantage.

On the topic of those who believe the cheaters have defrauded the promoters or public, I might suggest that we've gotten what we deserve. Why? We put the greatest reward and glory on records. Yes, we'd all like to see world records, but take a look at the reward system -- break a world record and you get a huge bonus. Winning isn't enough. Aren't we encouraging someone who has the potential to break a record to do everything possible -- to include cheating -- to attain that goal? Of course promoters want world records, and most would be willing to look the other way if their meet got attention because of a world record. A world record is always the lead sentence, often the only reason the press picked up a story. I can't think of a professional salary structure or prize money for any other professional sport that places so much financial emphasis on setting new records.

I know that downplaying the importance of times, distances, and heights doesn't sit well for the statistical minded. I've said before that I enjoy seeing a world record as much as anybody, but I don't want to sacrifice the intergrity of the sport for the sake of "watching history." I want to see good, fair competition where the winner is determined by hard work and determination -- not who has the best chemists.

[Guest]

Re: Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

This is a great idea! This should have taken place long ago. Along with the lifetime ban, there should also be a substantial financial penalty. The penalty should reflect the money that cheaters have already stolen from other athletes who have done it with hard work and sweat!!! Stop trying to get rich quick and put the work in!
I still do not understand how "Track and Field" of all athletes can walk around proud knowing that the goals that they have achieved were enhanced by cheating.
"lets get back to the basics, Lets see who REALLY can run the fastest, jump the farthest, and throw the farthest".

Triple jumper
1990,94 Goodwill games champion, 1991 World champion, 1996 Olympic champion, American and Olympic record holder.

[Guest]

Re: Zero Tolerance and Potential Lifetime Ban

>Aren't we
>encouraging someone who has the potential to
>break a record to do everything possible -- to
>include cheating -- to attain that goal?

No, I don't think we are, since the rules are clearly in place and the (public) stance on anti-doping is clear.

If I want to, say, encourage my kids to get a well-paying job, I don't expect them to go rob a bank, but rather to follow the challenge under the rules which are set forth.

[Guest]

Re: Lifetime Ban First Time Steroid Use: Not A Good Idea

Kenny H. I agree with you totally! And Go K. State!

By the way do you know where Clifton E. is these days?