IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

see USA Today story

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2003-11- ... ples_x.htm

As I read the story, IAAF still hasn't named names, but USA Today says that Toth, Jacobs and McEwen are three of them. DOn't know if they really KNOW that or if they're just going on the leaked reprots.

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

I am SHOCKED by these revelations. I so wanted to believe it was not true. No doubt it is a conspiracy.

[RMc]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

Ummm, I don't think this is "breaking" news, but maybe USA Today gets its info several weeks after the rest of the US press. That would be par for the course.

[Asterix]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

>Ummm, I don't think this is "breaking" news,

Notice in the first paragraph it refers to 'B' sample positives. When was the first official reference you've seen to those being announced and not just a repeat of suspected 'A' positives?

[MJD]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

>When was the first
>official reference you've seen to those being
>announced and not just a repeat of suspected 'A'
>positives?

I know this was a redundant question but this was the first official announcement. A quick review of the THG page on this site will confirm that:

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/ge ... Crisis.jsp


And if USA Today isn't good enough for you then how about a paper that has been all over this story:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ST0195.DTL

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

I read an Associated Press story (sorry, I lost the URL) that said that the IAAF doesn't know who the four are because USATF hasn't told them yet! They're also pissed off about it.

[Powell]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

>I read an Associated Press story (sorry, I lost
>the URL) that said that the IAAF doesn't know who
>the four are because USATF hasn't told them yet!
>They're also pissed off about it.

Hmmm... interesting. When I brought up the possibility of USATF covering up the positive test results, I was told they didn't have the power to do it because the results were automatically reported to the IAAF by USADA. Maybe those who claimed to know the procedures so well really didn't...

[gh]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

Hmmm... interesting. When I brought up the
>possibility of USATF covering up the positive
>test results, I was told they didn't have the
>power to do it because the results were
>automatically reported to the IAAF by USADA.
>Maybe those who claimed to know the procedures so
>well really didn't...>>

May well have been me who said that, but I've now been told that the way the process works, it's the LAB that does the actual testing that sends the IAAF a note that says, "samples X, Y and Z were positive." The lab can't send the names because it doesn't know them; it deals only with coded samples.

I assume that USATF and USADA are notified of the positives at the same time. But I don't know which of those has the information to match the codes to names. It could be both, but it could be that USATF has to tell USADA or vice versa. I don't know who in the U.S. has the responsibility of informing the IAAF the names or under what timeframe.

[Asterix]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

Hmmm... interesting. When I brought up the
>possibility of USATF covering up the positive
>test results, I was told they didn't have the
>power to do it because the results were
>automatically reported to the IAAF by USADA.
>Maybe those who claimed to know the procedures so
>well really didn't...

I'll admit to being one of those. My excuse is in the interpretation of the USADA release (http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/di ... .jsp?id=29) where it says:

"The athletes, USA Track and Field, the national governing body for the sport in the United States, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) and the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC) have all been notified of the positive ‘A’ sample results. "

I guess that can also be interpreted to say that the IAAF has only been notified that there were 4 positive tests and not necessarily who those 4 were.

It still makes it hard to "cover up" (although not impossible) since everyone knows how many and could keep pushing until they get names to match the numbers.

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

>Hmmm... interesting. When I brought up
>the
>possibility of USATF covering up the
>positive
>test results, I was told they didn't
>have the
>power to do it because the results
>were
>automatically reported to the IAAF by
>USADA.
>Maybe those who claimed to know the
>procedures so
>well really didn't...

I'll
>admit to being one of those. My excuse is in the
>interpretation of the USADA release
>(http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/displayArtic
>e.jsp?id=29) where it says:

"The athletes,
>USA Track and Field, the national governing body
>for the sport in the United States, the
>International Association of Athletics
>Federations (IAAF) and the U.S. Olympic Committee
>(USOC) have all been notified of the positive ‘A’
>sample results. "

I guess that can also be
>interpreted to say that the IAAF has only been
>notified that there were 4 positive tests and not
>necessarily who those 4 were.

It still makes
>it hard to "cover up" (although not impossible)
>since everyone knows how many and could keep
>pushing until they get names to match the
>numbers.>

It's also possible that the names won't come out until after the athletes in question have their hearing.

Steve S.

[gh]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

>>It's also possible that the names won't come out until
after the athletes in question have their hearing.>>

One good source tells us this is indeed the case; maybe 2-3 weeks before USADA releases the names.

[Powell]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

I guess that can also be
>interpreted to say that the IAAF has only been
>notified that there were 4 positive tests and not
>necessarily who those 4 were.

It still makes
>it hard to "cover up" (although not impossible)
>since everyone knows how many and could keep
>pushing until they get names to match the
>numbers.

Yeah, well... The IAAF also knew there were umpteen positive tests by US athletes before the Sydney Olympics... and they kept pushing... and guess what - they never found out who the athletes were. I'm still not convinced. All it will take to cover this one up is another decision by a US court, which, based on past experience, shouldn't be too hard to get.

[Asterix]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

All it will take to cover this one up
>is another decision by a US court, which, based
>on past experience, shouldn't be too hard to get.

I didn't say it was "impossible" to cover up, just pretty hard. I don't know how much one can rely on past experience to come to the conclusion US courts will aid and abet dopers. I seem to recall that in those cases it was where USATF had determined that no offence had taken place.

Have there been any examples where the US kept names hidden despite deciding that a positive test was actually a doping infraction? (For some reason, something twigs that this may have actually happened.)

What do you think the chances are with these current cases that athletes will be able to convince their hearing that they didn't really commit an offence, despite their positive tests, despite all that is currently known about this 'designer' steroid and despite the harder line being taken with regards to strict liability?

Again, not impossible, but given the above circumstances, how likely do YOU think it is there will be a 'cover-up'?

[michael lewis]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

"how likely do YOU think it is there will be a 'cover-up'?"

Certainly far less likely than ever before, if that isn't transparent someone needs their eyes checked

[Powell]

Re: IAAF Says 4 Ameriicans THG Positive

It does look less likely than in the past. But then again, if in 2000 USATF could dismiss 17 (I believe that was the number) positive tests as all being mistakes, I wouldn't bet against them at least trying to do the same thing again. And if it's less likely they'll succeed at doing it this time, it's because the names have already leaked out and the positive cases have been given extensive media coverage... which brings me back to a point I made on this board before: I'm very glad there was a leak. If the names were kept secret from the public, the chances of another cover-up would have been very good.