HGH

[Guest]

What's so wrong if i'm a runner and I take EPO and i'm not a big star I just want to improve my times...what the prob. with that?

[Jon]

Re: HGH

I'm not a scientist, so I don't know for sure, but as with most performance-enhancing substances, they mess you up inside and could create long-term health problems.



Plus, if you have an ounce of morals, you wouldn't do it in the first place.

[abinferno]

Re: HGH

what does that have to do with HGH?

[Guest]

Re: HGH

>What's so wrong if i'm a runner and I take EPO
>and i'm not a big star I just want to improve my
>times...what the prob. with that?

It's like cheating at soltaire. Nobody really cares, but it sure seems stupid.

[michael lewis]

Re: HGH

"What's so wrong if i'm a runner and I take EPO and i'm not a big star I just want to improve my times...what the prob. with that?"

What's the problem with just being yourself and improving your times? Further, I for one don't believe you just want to improve your times, and I think you're kidding yourself (maybe) but not everyone else.

[Guest]

Re: HGH

The question of morality in the taking of drugs in order to improve performance is two-fold. One, under today's current administration, an athlete has agreed NOT TO use them. Under this AGREEMENT an athlete has automatically subjected himself to an oath whereby if he then goes against that oath, he has violated not only an oath, but also committed an immoral act in violating that oath. Secondly, the use of performance enhancing drugs CAN be detrimental to one's health. The reason I say CAN and not DO is due to the obvious differences in physiological make-up of the athlete and his tolerance to a particular substance. This tolerance varies widely within individuals; thus, many drugs that WOULD affect one athlete may not affect another to nearly the same degree. That said, however, I would advise athletes not to pursue the use of any particular drug do the fact that ultimately, they don't know what the physical consequences will be long term through such use. Thus, if one uses said drugs and does not ultimately know what the consequences will be for their body, they are thus committing an immoral act against their own body through said use.

Now back to the first point, the issue of immorality in violating an oath not to use said drugs. If the use of drugs were agreed to be legal within the context of the sport, then there would be NO commission of an immoral act by an athlete in using the drug. Herein lies the problem with many people's arguement that using said drugs is CHEATING. CHEATING (thus, an immoral act) is only a valid arguement if an athlete AGREES to abide by the rules stating that the use of said drugs is illegal. IF NO SUCH RULE(S) WERE IN PLACE, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO CHEATING ON THE PART OF THE ATHLETE!

Now to all of those who now are incensed at my expounding on the logic of the arguement in question, I suggest that you take a look at your position and some bit of a logical thought process to your thinking and not base your arguements on "emotion" or "feeling". Emotions and feelings towards a subject quite often blind most people. Unfortunately, critical thinking is all too un-common in this day and age.

Kurt Francis
Throws Coach, Wilmington College, OH

[Guest]

Re: HGH

Kurt, of what administration do you speak? The original poster said nothing about what sort of competitive structure - if any at all - he participates within. So, he may or may not have taken an oath that would be violated if he took performance-enhancing drugs.

I've got a similar question that might put a little more flesh on Joe's. Let's say I'm a runner and I'm getting on in age and I've been battling an injury for months (years even). All I want to do is get healthy so that I can enjoy running again, and a properly and safely administered dose of HGH or testosterone, along with some rest and rehab would probably clear up the injury. Would anything be wrong with my taking the drug/hormone only during the healing process?

[michael lewis]

Re: HGH

"if one uses said drugs and does not ultimately know what the consequences will be for their body, they are thus committing an immoral act against their own body through said use."

"If the use of drugs were agreed to be legal within the context of the sport, then there would be NO commission of an immoral act by an athlete in using the drug."

Sorry but I object to the marriage of these 2 postions.

You give us two reasons why using drugs is immoral. One flows from a duty of care owed to one's own body. The other results when an agreement is broken. Your conclusion , "IF NO SUCH RULE(S) WERE IN PLACE, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO CHEATING ON THE PART OF THE ATHLETE!", is sound. HOWEVER, it doesn't follow that "If the use of drugs were agreed to be legal within the context of the sport, there would be NO commission of an immoral act by an athlete in using the drug." Not according to your argument anyway, since you've already posited that harming one's own body is immoral.

[michael lewis]

Re: HGH

"if one uses said drugs and does not ultimately know what the consequences will be for their body, they are thus committing an immoral act against their own body through said use."

"If the use of drugs were agreed to be legal within the context of the sport, then there would be NO commission of an immoral act by an athlete in using the drug."

Sorry but I object to the marriage of these 2 postions.

You give us two reasons why using drugs is immoral. One flows from a duty of care owed to one's own body. The other results when an agreement is broken. Your conclusion , "IF NO SUCH RULE(S) WERE IN PLACE, THEN THERE WOULD BE NO CHEATING ON THE PART OF THE ATHLETE!", is sound. HOWEVER, it doesn't follow that "If the use of drugs were agreed to be legal within the context of the sport, there would be NO commission of an immoral act by an athlete in using the drug." Not according to your argument anyway, since you've already posited that harming one's own body is immoral.

[Guest]

Re: HGH

It does not matter whether it is HGH, EPO, or THG, if an athlete is using performance enhancing substances, then they are comitting several unethical, not to mention illegal acts. Let me spell them out for you...

1. Clean competitiors and fans are being defrauded by a false performances. Clean athletes who are beaten by drug users should be suing the offending athletes, their coaches, and nutritional counselors (drug pushers)for damages. The damages would be for fraud, lost endorsements, mental aguish, and even diminshed apperance fees.


2. The rules clearly say no doping is allowed. The banned substances are listed, and a the rules even have a type of catch-all that says "and related substances". In other words, any substance that is a derivative of or mimics the banned substance in the body. This is why Andro and THG were out of bounds before we ever heard of them.

3. Most of the drugs being used are controlled substances. This means that in lot of cases the drugs are illegally obtained and possessed by the athletes using them. FYI - Balco is also under investigation because the Doctor hwo was suppposed to be supervising their programs was never actually there. Sounds to me like they may have been practicing medicine without a license.

4. In my opinion, any organization that knowingly facilitates the use of ilegal and or performance enhancing drugs should be investigated and if possible, prosecuted under the federal RICO statutes. Here are few examples. The owners who are willing to look the other way when they know that steriod and HGH use are going on because they want to use **public funds** to build new stadiums. The MLB and NFL players associations and their collective bargaining agreements, which are essentially attempting to allow their members to use drugs in the workplace, so that they can earn larger salaries. Try that in any real job and you will be out on your ear.

5. Most important of all, is the message that is being sent to the next generation of athletes. The message currentlty being sent says, hey it is okay to be a cheater and destroy your body as long as you get the win. It is no wonder that we are currently in the midst of so many corporate scandals. I guess we really have become a society of cheaters...welcome to the new GDR!

[Guest]

Re: HGH

Hey Answer Giver,

You never addressed my question. What about recreational athletes who just want to get over an injury so they can enjoy their exercise again? Fans, money, and competition aren't factors. What do you think?

[Guest]

Re: HGH

Greg in Toronto:

It's pretty simple (I think). If a doctor prescribes these drugs to you, it is fine.

If you surreptitiously purchase and take them on your own, it is not fine.

[michael lewis]

Re: HGH

"What about recreational athletes who just want to get over an injury so they can enjoy their exercise again? Fans, money, and competition aren't factors. What do you think?"

Hey, Michael in Toronto here. I've already given an opinion on this thread , and now I have another one: Make it common to give HGH to get over injuries and watch them start flooding into doctor's offices.....oh, and I don't mean Slow Joe Really Injured either.

[michael lewis]

Re: HGH

"welcome to the new GDR!"

There's a big difference between (1) a state-run doping program which systematically identifies talent, forces them to compete, dopes them all, some without their knowledge and/or consent, and operates with a directive to cover it all up, and (2) a society with a widespread drug problem where there are also many athletes choosing not to use, and an institution with the power to root out and enforce penalties for those who do cheat.

[Guest]

Re: HGH

Greg,

The "recreational athletes" that you are speaking of are the same guys that you see the gym. They are the meat heads who approach women and say, "hey baby check out my guns" and the personal trainers that take steroids or HGH and recruit clients by saying, "you can look like me if I train you." So, I still think that fans, money, and definitley ego are definitely motivating factors.

FYI - Here are list of therapies that can be used to cure almost any ailment that an athlete can possibly suffer from, and they do not invlove performance enhancing or illegal drugs.

1. Utlrasound
2. Muscle Stimulation
2. Heat (increases blood flow promting natural healing)
3. Ice baths (decreases blood flow which limits inflamtion and flushes out waste and toxins when blood flow returns)
4. Chriopractic Adjustments, Physical Therapy, and Yoga (improves joint & muscle function and flexibilty)
5. Strength Training
6. Prolortherapy (injections of dextrose, lidocaine, and saline designed to regenerate and or strengthen cartiliage, ligaments or tendons)
7. Orthopedic Surgery
8. Last, but not least, growing old gracefully!