Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why did Marion Jones cheat?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

    Yes, the original, of course. The remake is crap.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley

    Comment


    • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

      I am
      >not saying England did not deserve to win that championship, all I am saying is
      >that the ref's call was bad. I can't believe it's almost 40 years, seems like
      >yesterday :-)

      I will admit if I was German I'd have been pretty upset! I remember it very well too, I was 8 and we were in Yugoslavia. Watched it with about 200 Germans which only heightened the pleasure.

      Comment


      • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

        >Yes, the original, of course. The remake is crap.

        ...as far as the other stuff, quite a bit to absorb with a quick read. I suppose I could be a libertarian too but the trouble is that it doesn't really matter what I am, the government can still take too much of money to do whatever it wants. Everything else is just conversation.

        Comment


        • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

          >MJD - you outed pego! - show YOURSELF

          No known pics on the web-I even have my hand in front of my face in the one posted for our work Christmas party.

          Comment


          • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

            "Pat, need more height off the board in the LJ and less height over the hurdles!"

            Tell me about it. You are invited to Florida any time if you want to coach the coach.

            Comment


            • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

              "The West Germans have never been accused in the same way as the GDR, but they too had some remarkable sprinters in the 1970s (Richter, Helten,"

              True, though those 2 you mentioned were accused by a top West German male sprinter just after the Olympics of doping - read about it in T&FN and pretty sure it was Manfred Kokot. You'd think after nearly 30 years there'd have been at least one or two other Richters from the West. I can't quite understand the dearth of good German sprinters these days, and I don't think the dismantling of the DDR system can totally account for it. Even given the use of drugs for say 100m, which I believe on average gives about a 0.2 reduction in time, Germany has clearly had several women who had the ability to run around 11.00 - 11.10 drug free.

              Comment


              • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                Kokot was an East German? Anyway German track is abysmal and will stay that way, it's the same reason why white Americans have all but dried up in the sprints(the endurance sprinter semi-revival aside), West Germans have too much material wealth.

                Comment


                • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                  As an American married to a German who's lived in the German-speaking world for 16 years, I find the tone of this thread often disturbing, especially from Rob and Andrea T. I am a complete layperson, just a fan, but common knowledge shows that any comparison between the GDR doping system and the current US scandal is ridiculous. You with direct contact with ex-GDR athletes may have an incredible amount of information, but precisely because of that contact, a very subjective perspective.

                  Am I wrong in believing that the East German doping system was run by the Stasi, who sought out talented, very young athletes and pumped them full of drugs? The analogy in the US would be having the CIA scouring junior high schools and even grammar schools, pulling the talented kids out into isolated sport schools, hiring Conte as nutritionist...

                  On the other hand, I disagree with seeing East German athletes as guilty on a personal level. They were in a completely totalitarian system. When a GDR athlete realized that he/she was being doped, he/she would have to either resist authority by openly refusing the drugs (and thus end the career) or flush them (and lose performance level, thus ending the career). So I'm not very sympathetic to Amis who point the finger at individual GDR athletes.

                  American dopers do it voluntarily, and are thus MORE guilty individually. BUT, it's still a relatively small minority of US athletes who dope--again, no comparison with the GDR. Despite this scandal, there is no systematic doping in the US. I was in Aachen for the 1996 Olympics. As soon as Michael Johnson ran 19.32, the local paper raised the doping question, with absolutely no evidence. Pure anti-Americanism.

                  The bad blood between America and Europe is now at an all-time high, for lots of reasons. Hopefully threads like this can be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                    ..

                    Comment


                    • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                      I've read many articles in which former GDR athletes describe being given cups of pills at a very young age by their coaches and trainers, only learning much later what was in them. Do you know or interview ex-GDR athletes who are suffering serious physical damage from the medications they were given, or the woman who became a man because she was already turning into one from all the hormones?

                      I'm just entering this dialogue, and I haven't visited other chatrooms, but I must say that I'm skeptical that there were ANY clean athletes coming out of the GDR system. Those who hold still-standing records have every reason to insist on their innocence, because to admit guilt would be to admit that the records aren't valid. Some of them may be in total denial themselves.

                      I spent a lot of time working in Rostock (and loved it, a "zweite Heimat" for a while), and I know about the deep alienation between East and West that still exists. I think it's very naive to think that any ex-GDR athlete would level with any West German or other Westerner about certain topics.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                        ..

                        Comment


                        • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                          A current question,
                          >which is known to VERY few people, would be "Which country has Sabine Busch
                          >just emigrated to for the next 2 years?"

                          Rob, have you booked yourself in for counselling to deal with your withdrawal symptoms and abandonment issues?

                          I grew up watching East German athletes on TV in the 80s, and have a lot of their great performances on tape. The other day I was watching my recording of Marita Koch in the 1986 European Championships, and as she was poised on the blocks I was struck by how slim she was. The same goes for Gohr, Wockel etc (although I understand that Stecher was an exception). Today's women sprinters sometimes look more like middleweight boxers in terms of physique (Kelli White, Chryste Gaines are good examples). Is this upper body over-development beneficial to sprinting? I can't see that you have to be that big to run fast...

                          Comment


                          • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                            Can I just add, there was a lot of illicit trade going on between East and West Germany, and a lot of information was 'shared', more so then people think...
                            "If Gaby worked as hard with the weights as she did with her tongue she'd have a different concept of beauty. To get performances like mine, she'd have to sacrifice some of her good looks. The women of the west dont work as hard as we do" JK

                            Comment


                            • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                              The GDR ran a state-sponsored doping programme which brought its athletes to the line juiced. Market economics had the same effect in the West. It might make us feel morally superior to the East Germans that our athletes bought their own drugs on the black market rather than as receiving them as part of a state programme, but the effect on the sport is just the same.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                                There is a qualitative difference between systematic, state-sponsored doping and the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs by a minority of individual athletes.

                                In Germany, a huge group of former athletes sued for the physical damage they received from GDR "sports doctors," and won. Some of these "sports doctors" have been convicted as criminals. Rob and Andrea T, what's your take on this?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X