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Why did Marion Jones cheat?

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  • #16
    Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

    "Your point is taken: if everyone is cheating, then no one is."

    That isn't what I was saying. I won't for a second argue that everyone is cheating since that is patently false. I would also argue that if everyone is cheating, everyone is still cheating, if cheating means breaking the rules. What I want to do is distinguish between breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage, and breaking the rules where the motive is to compensate for many unfair advantages already had by many others. There was a time when few enough athletes were using drugs that those doing so fell into the former category. Although East Germany hardly pioneered the use of steroids, they were the first state-sponsored, systematic and hugely successful case of cheating to gain an unfair advantage. They weren't trying to level any playing field, sporadic drug use by athletes from many nations notwithstanding. The DDR completely remade the playing field to their advantage like no nation or group of athletes before them. I would argue that the DDR was a catalyst for the spread of the use of drugs; it was merely a matter of time before many or most athletes said "Enough!" The result: a sport with drug use so widespread that athletes knew they were competing at a major disadvantage by playing clean.

    I hope people will read this for what it is, an attempt to understand how we got where we are and to try to explain that decisions to "cheat" or "not cheat" aren't always made according to the same rationale. The situation is not as black and white as many people want it to be.

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    • #17
      Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

      Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I agree you didn't say that everyone is cheating.

      However, if not everyone is cheating, then whoever cheats is taking unfair advantage of those who don't, as well as trying to catch up to those that do. You seemed to be saying that if you were trying to keep up with the cheating elite, then you weren't really cheating, at least not if the definition was taking unfair advantage.

      I do think you make a very valid point -- what is an athlete to do when faced with large-scale cheating, and in order to succeed at the highest level, there appears to be no alternative but to cheat? While one option is to quit the sport rather than cheat to succeed, that isn't much of an option for someone who wants or needs to compete at the highest level.

      It's also true that whenever someone does wrong, or cheats, there is always some justification -- it's not usually just pure evil. I steal because I was born disadvantaged, and want to have the lifestyle some were given by birth. I'm sure you're making an effort to broaden our understanding of why someone would take drugs to compete with those who do. My guess is that while you'd offer this as an explanation, you would not agree that it justifies the cheating, or would condone it.

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      • #18
        Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

        If MJ didn't take drugs herself because she knew she didn't need to but helped other people get them then she is saying- sure I am fortunate enough to not need them but if you do I support you- that's cheating in my books!

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        • #19
          Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

          "If MJ didn't take drugs herself because she knew she didn't need to but helped other people get them then she is saying- sure I am fortunate enough to not need them but if you do I support you- that's cheating in my books!"

          now I'd believe the 10.49 was wind 0.0 and run by someone who just managed to knock half a second off her pr in a season by hard work alone, before I'd believe this bit about MJ. as an aside could it be any more obvious by now that Flojo was into something completely radical? speaking with a former world class sprinter who competed against Flo and who also used performance enhancements, we agreed there had to be something way out in left field. Florence wasn't just that much better than everyone else. and the one story that apparently went around was that some people thought that even strychnine was involved. whatever, it was no ordinary quantum leap.

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          • #20
            Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

            "one story that apparently went around was that some people thought that even strychnine was involved"

            I did a word search on strycnine and came up with the following article - pretty interesting. Striking similarities, but the only problem is there is about a 10 year difference b/t her 1988 performances and her death.

            But I agree with you, I don't believe common steriods alone are responsible for that quantum leap.

            Anyway check out this article - just FYI:

            http://92.1911encyclopedia.org/S/ST/STRYCHNINE.htm

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            • #21
              Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

              re: flojo
              isnt it possible she was a 'superresonder' to human growth hormone or a particular steroid composition?

              and re: strychnine.. this line is interesting:

              The specific effects of the drug, however, are upon the central nervous system. It excites the motor areas of the spinal cord and increases their reflex irritability.

              .. does this imply faster stride frequency?

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              • #22
                Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                isnt it possible she was a 'superresonder' to human growth hormone or a particular steroid composition?"

                Well she'd be a freak of some sort cuz wouldn't you expect to see at least one other?

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                • #23
                  Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                  Well she'd be a freak of some sort cuz
                  >wouldn't you expect to see at least one other?


                  yes i would, but imagine THG with a much shorter client list

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                  • #24
                    Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                    MONEYMONEYMONEYMONEYMONEYMONEY etc.............

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                    • #25
                      Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                      MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN

                      Marion just keeps making bad choices in men -- first her husband, then the father of her child. What's a girl going to do?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                        No,not her choices,thats Lawyer talk for"it was'nt her fault".It's Jones morality thats in question-what an example to her young fans!!Oh, and sponsors please note,your tainted too!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                          >please note,your tainted too!

                          You leave my tainted too out of this!

                          Or did you mean "you're tainted too"?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                            You're tainted,Love.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                              >We really have no idea if MJ has cheated or not. It doesn't look good but
                              >hopefully the truth will come out either way!

                              I will be very disappointed if
                              >she has cheated that she has lied repeatedly and held herself up as a clean
                              >athlete. I pray she is innocent- I just want her or the USADA to clear things
                              >up!!!

                              Amen to this...but, the reason I think Marion has not been cheating is that she is running slower now. She ran her 10.65 in 1998, she is now running about 11.00 and although she will undoubtedly improve on the 11.00, that's a ballpark away from 10.65. If she has been cheating with the new, designer steriod over the last 2-3 years then why is she running significantly slower???

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Why did Marion Jones cheat?

                                THG didn't seem to help Dwain Chambers last year. With regard to Flo-Jo, all I will say is that I saw her up close in Sept, 1987 and heard her being interviewed not ten feet away from me. I still haven't watched the 1988 games on TV (We had a little matter of hurricane Gilbert that sort of disrupted our electricity supply a few days before the start of the Athletics.) I heard them inteview her after she won the 100m and I thought it was an impostor because the voice was probably an octave deeper than what I remembered hearing a year earlier. Take from that what you will.
                                why don't people pronounce vowels anymore

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