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  • benefits of stimulants? [split]

    Originally posted by 26mi235
    Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.
    Sorry I'm from the Midwest we dont take the SAT. But I do know what an analogy is and if there is any analogy it would be first degree murder and man slaughter. Varying degrees of the same thing. PED's are PED's whether a stimulant or steroid they all have the ability to enhance performance. For some people they may not need the steroid so they use stimulant for others they may need steroid.

  • #2
    Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

    Originally posted by TrackTeacher_AP
    Originally posted by 26mi235
    Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.
    Sorry I'm from the Midwest we dont take the SAT. But I do know what an analogy is and if there is any analogy it would be first degree murder and man slaughter. Varying degrees of the same thing. PED's are PED's whether a stimulant or steroid they all have the ability to enhance performance. For some people they may not need the steroid so they use stimulant for others they may need steroid.
    Do you have any solid evidence that stimulants have PED effect. Sorry, but I ask everybody who states it and so far, nobody could provide it.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

      Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

        Originally posted by MJR
        Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
        I am not aware of their effect on peripheral nervous system.By whose definition should they be classified as PEDs? As far as I know, PED effect has never been conclusively demonstrated.
        "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
        by Thomas Henry Huxley

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

          Originally posted by MJR
          Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
          Yeah that is the 6th grade definition but as pego and others pointed out there are no data in terms of studies. Even If i took a stimulant I don't think it would improve any of my abilities in any physical or mental task !

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

            Originally posted by tm71
            Originally posted by MJR
            Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
            Yeah that is the 6th grade definition but as pego and others pointed out there are no data in terms of studies. Even If i took a stimulant I don't think it would improve any of my abilities in any physical or mental task !
            The effects of this type of stimulant
            Alertness and similar - effect on the central nervous system
            Alpha and beta receptors - autonomic nervous system

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

              Originally posted by ldnbloke
              Originally posted by tm71
              Originally posted by MJR
              Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
              Yeah that is the 6th grade definition but as pego and others pointed out there are no data in terms of studies. Even If i took a stimulant I don't think it would improve any of my abilities in any physical or mental task !
              The effects of this type of stimulant
              Alertness and similar - effect on the central nervous system
              Alpha and beta receptors - autonomic nervous system
              How does this provide evidence of PED effect? This is my favorite adage on the subject.

              "Make you feel like Tarzan, perform like Jane."
              "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
              by Thomas Henry Huxley

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

                Originally posted by Pego
                Originally posted by MJR
                Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
                I am not aware of their effect on peripheral nervous system.By whose definition should they be classified as PEDs? As far as I know, PED effect has never been conclusively demonstrated.
                I would be really and sincerely interested if those of you (e.g., those quoted here, et al.) could discuss the stimulants & performance enhancement question in some more depth. I write this as an interested layperson -- my Chemistry and Biology training is pretty much from the dark ages. Perhaps this can't happen in this thread, but it seems pertinent to current and recent events, to say the least. I assume that not all stimulants are created equal, but what effect might/do they have, in relation to athletic performance? My direct experience is limited to caffeine, which upon being consumed each morning does seem to enhance my functioning, if ever so slightly. But in my line of work, mostly in the classroom & study, my responses aren't being measured to the hundredth or thousandth of a second, and my success in the world isn't correlated to these fine-tuned reactions. (Though I think it helps me in workouts, too, especially in the latter stages of long runs, but I can't prove that.) So, then, what do the stimulants in question do, or might do, that gets them on this list? Some thinking on this must have changed, because I get that caffeine isn't banned any longer. (Thank the gods that it's still OK in my line of work.) What, then, is the story with the stimulants in question? Do they, or might they, provide other effects? Again, a sincere though entirely undramatic question. Any attention to it by those with the training to respond is greatly appreciated.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

                  Originally posted by ldnbloke
                  Originally posted by tm71
                  Originally posted by MJR
                  Stimulants enhance the central and peripheral nervous systems. That, by definition, makes them a PED. Very simple. No need to go into the exacting details of pharmacology.
                  Yeah that is the 6th grade definition but as pego and others pointed out there are no data in terms of studies. Even If i took a stimulant I don't think it would improve any of my abilities in any physical or mental task !
                  The effects of this type of stimulant
                  Alertness and similar - effect on the central nervous system
                  Alpha and beta receptors - autonomic nervous system
                  Dude I know the receptor pharmacology well since I occasionally prescribe stimulants in
                  my practice. the question is whether the effect in the nervous system is enough to improve ones ability to run the 100 meters faster. Running the 100 meters fast is much more complicated than this and it is very likely that 80-90 % of it is genetic even though there has never been a study able to prove that either!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

                    I just gave a simple explanation for the mode of action.
                    I don't know if they enhance performance as I doubt ill find good RCTs about it.
                    They should be banned though / running in the heat, exertion, fit athletes / sympatomimetics with no indication / medically not the right thing to take .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

                      Originally posted by TrackTeacher_AP
                      Originally posted by 26mi235
                      Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.
                      Sorry I'm from the Midwest we dont take the SAT. But I do know what an analogy is and if there is any analogy it would be first degree murder and man slaughter. Varying degrees of the same thing. PED's are PED's whether a stimulant or steroid they all have the ability to enhance performance. For some people they may not need the steroid so they use stimulant for others they may need steroid.
                      Are you playing dense or what?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

                        Originally posted by tm71
                        Dude I know the receptor pharmacology well since I occasionally prescribe stimulants in
                        my practice. the question is whether the effect in the nervous system is enough to improve ones ability to run the 100 meters faster. Running the 100 meters fast is much more complicated than this and it is very likely that 80-90 % of it is genetic even though there has never been a study able to prove that either!
                        I think he could mean that it makes runners more alert and focused which enhances their reaction times. I am a mathematics person so I do not know all of the science behind it however it is a reasonable explanation as to why it is banned?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

                          Originally posted by 26mi235
                          Originally posted by TrackTeacher_AP
                          Originally posted by 26mi235
                          Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.
                          Sorry I'm from the Midwest we dont take the SAT. But I do know what an analogy is and if there is any analogy it would be first degree murder and man slaughter. Varying degrees of the same thing. PED's are PED's whether a stimulant or steroid they all have the ability to enhance performance. For some people they may not need the steroid so they use stimulant for others they may need steroid.
                          Are you playing dense or what?
                          Unfortunately a lot of people are very concrete and think in that dichotomy, clean or dirty, good or bad and don't understand how things can be relative and on a continuum.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

                            It is rather indicative that most accidental stimulant findings are among the sprinters.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              benefits of stimulants? [split]

                              Originally posted by TrackTeacher_AP
                              Originally posted by tm71
                              Dude I know the receptor pharmacology well since I occasionally prescribe stimulants in
                              my practice. the question is whether the effect in the nervous system is enough to improve ones ability to run the 100 meters faster. Running the 100 meters fast is much more complicated than this and it is very likely that 80-90 % of it is genetic even though there has never been a study able to prove that either!
                              I think he could mean that it makes runners more alert and focused which enhances their reaction times. I am a mathematics person so I do not know all of the science behind it however it is a reasonable explanation as to why it is banned?
                              As Pego (and other MDs on the board) have mentioned many times, you basically can't change reaction time. There are limits on how fast a neuron can transmit a signal and that's the end of the story.

                              Comment

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