Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

[MJR]

Who coached these dopers & who did they compete for at the time they were caught.

2012
Christian Hesch
Debbie Dunn

2010
Chris Lucezic (know this was a retirement issue)
Mark Jelks
Ivory Williams
Garfield Ellenwood (club only)
Philippe DeRosier

2009
Jordan Vaden
Mitchell Pope

2007
Jeffrey Chakouian

2006
Scott Boothby
John Capel
Rickey Harris

2005
Chryste Gaines
Leo Bookman
Deeja Youngquist

2004
John Capel
John McEwen
Christopher Phillips
Chryste Gaines
Eric Thomas

[gh]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

tread lightly on this one, my friends. (projected life span: less than a couple of hours)

[dustoff]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

What on earth--Why have you included a list of people that tested positive for THC and garbage like methylhex, but not included plenty of others?

A lot of the athletes that suddenly retire or drop off the map may not have been outed, but have tested positive in one way or another.

[polevaultpower]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

[Pego]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

Why would anybody use finasteride as a PED? It is an anti-androgen :roll: . Why would it even be on the Index?

[trackinblack2]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

Why would anybody use finasteride as a PED? It is an anti-androgen :roll: . Why would it even be on the Index?

Anti-androgens can be used to mask the use of Testosterone and other Androgenic Hormones if used correctly.

[Pego]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

Why would anybody use finasteride as a PED? It is an anti-androgen :roll: . Why would it even be on the Index?

Anti-androgens can be used to mask the use of Testosterone and other Androgenic Hormones if used correctly.

This make sense. Educate me some more. With the variability of testosterone production and metabolism, it must be quite an art to properly time this for competition. The trouble is that there is also random testing. Do they just risk it? I don't see how you can time that.

[MJR]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

This list was pulled from the USADA website of track athletes with adverse findings. I'm not looking for some great discussion, just some help filling in the blanks. Please stick only to the topic as explained in the first post.

[MJR]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

and was reinstated once propecia was pulled from the wada lists

[Pego]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Trackinblack2, MJR wants to keep this thread pure. Could you respond to me on the "stimulants" thread?

[gh]

Re: Doper Coaches & Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

and was reinstated once propecia was pulled from the wada lists

Yet you've tarred him by including him on a list you titled <<Who coached these dopers & who did they compete for at the time they were caught.>>

[MJR]

Re: Doper Coaches &amp; Clubs/Team

i pulled raw data, not looking at the athletes, just using that data because the other stuff is not available. going in the other direction with this for a specific reason. will discuss privately, if you'd like.

[dustoff]

Re: Doper Coaches &amp; Clubs/Team

You clearly didn't pull the raw data from any reputable/up-to-date source because you left off certain athletes and included others without any consideration for the substance or whether or not they are even banned.

[Master Po]

Re: Doper Coaches &amp; Clubs/Team

I'll go with the expressed purpose of this thread. I'll comment on 3, with some sources, and a followup question/comment:

Deeja Youngquist
viewtopic.php?t=4206
As the interview on this April 2004 TFN thread shows, she was coached at that time by Teddy Mitchell. This time period -- Spring of 2004 -- was the time of the test for which she was sanctioned (EPO).

Christian Hesch
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/sport ... d=all&_r=0
The facts of his use as reported in this NY Times article were not disputed that I know of. He was a member of Nike Team Run L.A., but -- as I understand this case -- it would be quite wrong to associate his actions with that club, as it was club members who upon discovering his EPO use demanded that he come forward and confess, or else they would report him. Nike Team Run L.A. does not provide coaching, so I think you could say that Mr. Hesch was both self-coached and self-medicated, as the NY Times story indicates.

Chris Lukezic
http://www.runblogrun.com/2010/09/some- ... der-1.html
Larry Eder's RunBlogRun column describes the details of his case well. You yourself note that this was one of those post-retirement "sanctions" for a missed test. So, why include him in a list of what you describe as "dopers"? Lukezic publicly announced his retirement in November 2009, and then was "sanctioned" nearly a year later for having "missed " an out-of-competition test in the Spring of 2010. To include him in this list, in any way -- even if you qualify his inclusion with your note -- is problematic. If there is any instance where "not all sanctions are alike" it is this category of post-retirement sanctions. Those are absurd, and your inclusion of Lukezic here is close to that, imo.

So, I will ask a followup question, with sincere interest: What are you working on, researching, thinking about, with this thread? I know nothing about most of these people you list, but of the three for which I am familiar, they are rather different cases, to put it mildly: One an elite (USA) athlete as of 2004, when she failed a test, for which she was ultimately sanctioned. Another a self-coached, self-medicated (so to speak) club runner about whom none of us would ever have known, except for his 15 minutes of "fame" for telling his doping story upon his confession as a result of the pressure of his club mates, whom I thank for outing him, however small a fish he was. Finally, a well-regarded professional runner who represented the USA at the WJC, WIC, and WC, and who completed his career in good graces, retired "properly", and then was bureaucratically sanctioned for not being in step with USADA's process.

[Blues]

Re: Doper Coaches &amp; Clubs/Team

Boothby tested positive for Propecia (a hair loss treatment)...

and was reinstated once propecia was pulled from the wada lists

Yet you've tarred him by including him on a list you titled <<Who coached these dopers & who did they compete for at the time they were caught.>>

I agree that MJR's labeling of certain athletes as dopers stepped way over the line, but in all fairness, when it comes to finasteride, the reason finasteride was removed from the banned list wasn't because the authorities determined that it didn't mask steroids, but rather because the new technology (2009) for testing for steroids, including the biological passport, rendered finasteride's ability to mask less effective.

With all due respect to Mr. Boothby, an athlete who was sanctioned for testing positive for finasteride prior to the changes in testing technology could definitely (but not necessarily) have benefitted from the masking properties of finasteride at the time he or she tested positive. If he or she was reinstated because finasteride was taken off the banned list when newer and more effective means of steroid detection became available, it doesn't necessarily prove that the athlete wasn't using it to mask anabolic steroid use at an earlier period when the athlete was using it and tested positive. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a later reinstatement isn't always necessarily proof of innocence.