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1988 Olympics Womens 4x4

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  • 1988 Olympics Womens 4x4

    I just watched this race and it was so exciting to see Flo Jo run the anchor leg of the 4x4 but I believe she could have won the race for the United States...... she seemed very nervous and just stayed behide Olga............Could you see Mo Greene or Lauryn Williams running the anchor leg of the 4x4? NOPE ! I believe Justin Gatlin could do it (he did at the NCAA and ran a 44. spilt) I just don't think you will see this feat happen again.....Marion tryed but didn't anchor the team in 2000.

  • #2
    You're underestimating Bryzgina. Her split in that race was 47.80. Not easy to match for someone who isn't a 400 meter specialist - even for the superwoman that Flo Jo was in 1988.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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    • #3
      double post
      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Powell
        double post
        You can delete your own posts by clicking on that little 'x' icon next to the 'quote' and 'edit' icons above your post.

        Yet ANOTHER plus point for the new format...

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        • #5
          Hey, I'm not complaining about the new format!

          I can't see any X next to the Edit and Reply buttons, though...

          Edit: now I can see it above this post, but not above the earlier ones. Is it only active for a certain time after you've posted?
          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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          • #6
            I agree with Powell, Bryzgina was an excellent performer and not to be under estimated.
            I do think Flo Jo got her tactics slightly wrong though, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened had she gone out harder and got infront of Bryzgina before the last curve. I dont think she approached it aggressively enough, and was rather tentative.

            At the time there was debate over whether the US should have run that order. It was speculated that things may have been different had Flo Jo run leg 3 and Brisco leg 4. Leg 3 is generally the leg left for inexperienced runners, so in some ways it would have made sense for Flo Jo to run the 3rd. We have to remember she ran the 4x100 earlier that afternoon too.

            The USSR had another sub 50 runner in Yurchenko that year, but she was scrapped from the team (injured?) and they instead chose the reliable Pinigina and a vastly improved Ledovskaya. I think they justified their places, but I am intrigued to know whether Yurchenko was left out through injury or soem other reason.

            In my mind it was the GDR that made the biggest mistake. Neubauer was not in good form that year, and Emmellman was below par (though v unlucky not to make the 400 individual final) Neubauer's opening leg left too big a gap for Emmelman, and by the 3rd leg Busch was by herself in no mans land. Neubauer should not have been in the team, and instead the GDR should have chosen between Ellen Fiedler, Drechsler, Wachtal or Wodars. Any of those four could have run better than Neubauer. Busch should also have been on the 2nd leg too, it should probably have been something like Emmelman/Fiedler, Busch, Drechsler/Fiedler, Muller.
            Drechsler had proven herself with a good 3rd leg in the Euro Cup in 87, bringing a flagging GDR team back into the lead ahead of the USSR, and Fiedler's 400mh bronze in 53.6 showed she had good flat speed, especially as she held off Busch.
            The GDR made a few selection mistakes that year, most notably no Drechsler in the 4x1, no mens 4x100 team at all and Reinsch over Wyludda in the DT.
            "If Gaby worked as hard with the weights as she did with her tongue she'd have a different concept of beauty. To get performances like mine, she'd have to sacrifice some of her good looks. The women of the west dont work as hard as we do" JK

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            • #7
              The GDR team might not have been optimal, but given that they finished over 3 seconds down, the changes you're suggesting still wouldn't have put them higher than 3rd.

              Actually, looking at the splits, I doubt any of the women whose names you brought up would have done better than Neubauer. She ran the 1st leg in 50.58.
              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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              • #8
                Andrea,

                As far as I can remember Yurchenko was injured so had to scratch from the individual 400 as well as the relay. In fact the USSR had yet another sub 50 400m runner that year in Lyudmila Dzhigalova, so they were spoilt for choice!

                As for the GDR, Neubauer actually ran as well as could have been expected - 50.5 - but the changeover to Emmelmann was poor and the latter was nearly a second down on her performance in the relay at the previous year's world championships (49.9). I think though that in this case it didn't matter who the GDR put in the team, they were faced with two inspired teams each boasting four runners who gave their best on the day. With the retirement of Marita Koch the GDR did not have a runner capable of sub 49, yet the USSR had two sub 48 second splits in that race, and the result was the only occasion I can remember when a GDR women's 4x400 team was absolutely outclassed in a major championships.

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                • #9
                  Re: 1988 Olympics Womens 4x4

                  Originally posted by #1 Track Stunna II
                  I just watched this race and it was so exciting to see Flo Jo run the anchor leg of the 4x4 but I believe she could have won the race for the United States...... she seemed very nervous and just stayed behide Olga............
                  is this race available on the internet???? i'd love to see it.

                  and considering that one or two of the soviet runners were later banned for doping, how did that record survive?

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                  • #10
                    Which Soviets were banned for doping?
                    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Powell
                      Which Soviets were banned for doping?
                      Assuming it's the same athlete, I believe Nazarova, then of the Ukraine, failed a test in the mid-90s. Remember reading it in Wallechinsky's Olympic history, which I can't find at the mo to confirm.

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                      • #12
                        ..

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                        • #13
                          A few comments....

                          Firstly to vern & Powell, Nazarovoa failed a test in 1996. She had run a good race early season and a good leg in the euro cup 4x400, but failed a test soon after.

                          To Rog, the GDR had TWO women who ran sub 49 in the Seoul relay, Busch ran 48.81 and Muller 48.99. You also have to take into account the gap between Busch and the others on the 3rd leg. I really feel if she and Muller had been closer they would have run faster legs.

                          Rob, I don't agree Wachtel didnt have the necessary strength on the flat at all. In 1989, when not as good as the previous season, she ran a 50.1 3rd leg in Gateshead, and later in the year a 50.9. In 1991, when in even poorer form, she ran a 50.7 leg in Tokyo. In 1988 she was definitely on for at least a 50.1, probably sub 50. You have to assume Wodars would have done something similar as she beat Wachtel in Seoul,they followed the exact same training programme and she had a 400mh background which Wachtel didnt. On Fiedler, she ran 53.6 in the 400mh. Take off the hurdles/flat 2.5 differential (which can be up to 3) and the standard 0.8 for relay legs, and she could have run at least 50.3. Of course that is hypothetical, but if we see Ledovskaya ran 50.1 and Busch ran 48.8, you get an idea of what she could have run. She was also on the first leg on a 4x4 ealier in the year for the GDR, so had experience. Drechsler would probably have run the better leg of the four canididates. 10.9/21.8 sprint form that season, she'd run a 50.0 3rd leg the year before when in poorer form during a relay in which all times were down (yet she still ran down and beat Dzhigalova) In 88 analysis also showed her sprinting focused less on maximum speed and more on speed endurance compared to 87 (ie slower max speed in a 10m section, but top speed maintained for a longer period)
                          With the right order, with Busch and Muller more in contention, the GDR could have run something like Emmelman 49.9, Busch 48.4, Drechsler 49.0, Muller 48.5 which would have been a 3:15+
                          "If Gaby worked as hard with the weights as she did with her tongue she'd have a different concept of beauty. To get performances like mine, she'd have to sacrifice some of her good looks. The women of the west dont work as hard as we do" JK

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                          • #14
                            Andrea,

                            I should probably have made clear that what I meant to say was that the GDR had no women 400m runners capable of sub 49 from the blocks in 1988.

                            As regards Wachtel, Drechsler, Wodars, Fieldler etc I don't see that they could have made 3 seconds worth of difference. Your proposed 1st leg split for Emmelmann is 1/2 second faster than she clocked for 400m in 1988, and indeed as fast as she ran with a flying start on the second leg at the Olympics. I understand Drechsler had a sore back and couldn't run. Wachtel was far more effective than Wodars in the 1989 Euro Cup, when Wodars ran the first leg but handed over about 4th, however that year Wodars was faster over 800 than in 1988 so given an equal that her 1988 400 would have been a little bit slower as well (or thereabouts) I don't think she would have been a serious consideration for the Olympic squad. Wachtel and Fiedler were both good, but I think Neubauer was the right choice - 50.5 on the first leg, from the blocks, was a pretty good performance. The problem was she handed over less than 1/2 second behind the USSR, but on the second leg Nasarova took a further two seconds out of Emmelmann and the GDR were out of the race. The GDR just weren't good enough to match the USSR and USA on that occasion, as demonstrated by the fact that each of the latter two teams had two athletes returning faster split times than the fastest GDR athlete.

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                            • #15
                              I'm glad that Flojo anchored, as opposed to running another leg. Since she was the one going for her fourth (?) gold medal (without running a 400 that year), it is only fair that she have the additional pressure of anchoring.
                              It would have been interesting if Flojo had passed Brysina on the backstretch, but I believe the end result would have been the same. Flojo didn't have anything in the final straight, and would have rigged worse if she had taken the lead on the backstretch.

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