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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Carr and Borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    Lots of what if's in track (more than any sport). US 100 meter team told wrong time for Munich start. Steve Williams' injuries. Decker and Budd. Botched baton exchanges. Carl Lewis not used on Atlanta 4 X 100. Christie eliminated for false start.

    As for the '68 games and talk of the 200,until the peak of Carl Lewis, I used to insist that Tommie Smith was the fastest human who ever lived. After all, a 19.5 is back-to-back 9.75's.

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  • dj
    replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    "Another side item, does anyone think Billy Mills could have duplicatd his 64' Olympic 10,000 final in Mexico City in 68 with the high altitude?"

    Why would anyone think Mills could have duplicated his Tokyo performance when he couldn't make the US team (which was selected at altitude)?

    Or are you asking whether Mills could have won in '64 if the Tokyo had been at the altitude of Mexico City? In that case, the answer might well be yes. He may have had as much minimal altitude background at that point as Gammoudi, and more than Clarke. And I'm not certain Wolde was ready.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    billy mills or for that matter any runner without living and training at mexico city 7500 feet altitude would have a problem at distance 1500m to 10,000m. mills 28:24.4 was faster then the gold medal winner of 1968 which right off the top of my mind was 29 minutes and change. i think even if mills would have won in 68 he would not have better his time at toyko.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    >Actually that's the point. Mills ran a once in a
    >lifettime race in Tokyo and Im curious to know if
    >he would have had any extra benfit running in the
    >altitude.

    Benefit? Are you daft?

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  • Falken
    replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    More...

    Hayes ran 10,06 with a 1,03m/s tailwind.
    In Mexico they had +0,3m/s
    Converts (again in MY book) to about 10,02 in Mexico (+0,3)
    I would t hengive him 0,11s for the altitude (9,91)
    and some more for the track... so maybe around 9,85...

    F.

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  • Falken
    replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    Howard,
    Let's see if we can get the math right.
    Carr ran 20,36 in Tokyo.
    -0,8m/s converts (according to me...) to about 20,31 with zero wind.
    Add +0,9m/sand he would have had about 20,26-20,25.
    Altitude (in my book a gain of 0,18s) gives us a 20,08.
    Add the fast track and maybe he could have gon below 20,00.
    All the best

    F.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    fauklan, i think i gave carr too much on his performance,but just a little. give 20.30 on -0.8m wind, one tenth to 20.20 at alt.take 3 tenths for lighting fast tartan track to 19.90. then 5 hundreds to 19.85 for +0.9m wind. must focus on those 3 tenths because most if not all would agree that bob hayes would have run about 9.85 at mexico city. hayes ran 10.06 in tokyo. take 5 hundreds to 10.01 for alt. then take 15 hundreds to 9.86 for tartan track. what this means is if we give it to hayes,gotta give it to carr. likewise if we cannot give it to carr,then we cannot give it to hayes.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    Actually that's the point. Mills ran a once in a lifettime race in Tokyo and Im curious to know if he would have had any extra benfit running in the altitude.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    >
    >side item, does anyone think Billy Mills could
    >have duplicatd his 64' Olympic 10,000 final in
    >Mexico City in 68 with the high altitude?

    Oh come on. Ron Clarke was by far the best in the world by then, and he couldn't hang at altitude.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    The question is, what if Bob Hayes would have run the 100 meter dash with the altitude of Mexico City and benefit of a tartan track? Perhaps 9.88. I strongly believe if Hayes had still been competing in track and field in 68' he would have repeated as the 100 meter champion.
    Another side item, does anyone think Billy Mills could have duplicatd his 64' Olympic 10,000 final in Mexico City in 68 with the high altitude?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    >imagine henry carr and valery borzov would have
    >ran at the 1968 games at 200m with the high
    >altitude and with carr the additional benefit of
    >the tartan track. remember carr also ran into a
    >very strong head wind and still ran 20.36. borzov
    >if you notice also ease up with 5 yards to go and
    >still ran 20.00. but having said that tommie
    >smith also threw his arms up with 15 yards to go
    >and ran 19.83. john carlos if you remember ran
    >20.10 not focusing on his race by looking to his
    >left at smith and right at peter norman.to shake
    >this all out if they all ran that day and run
    >all out smith still would win at 19.70,carr
    >19.74, carlos 19.75, borzov 19.85.

    Hey, Carlos wouldn't medal. For some reason, people forget Peter Norman was the silver medalist in Mexico City. Probably because he's white. Carlos says he slowed down to let Smith win, fact is, he tied up, and Norman ran him down.

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  • Falken
    replied
    Re: what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    Carr 19,74 ??
    I doubt it ...
    The wind in Tokyo was -0,8 m/s meaning that he would not have dipped under 20,30 with zero wind.

    Sure, altitude and tartan may have improved his time, but I find it hard to see him run any better than 20,00.

    F

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest started a topic what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    what if carr and borzov in 68 games @ 200m

    imagine henry carr and valery borzov would have ran at the 1968 games at 200m with the high altitude and with carr the additional benefit of the tartan track. remember carr also ran into a very strong head wind and still ran 20.36. borzov if you notice also ease up with 5 yards to go and still ran 20.00. but having said that tommie smith also threw his arms up with 15 yards to go and ran 19.83. john carlos if you remember ran 20.10 not focusing on his race by looking to his left at smith and right at peter norman.to shake this all out if they all ran that day and run all out smith still would win at 19.70,carr 19.74, carlos 19.75, borzov 19.85.
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