If the US had gone to Moscow ..........

[JohnG]

I enjoyed the Wells v Floyd debate and the absolute certainty on the part of some posters that Floyd would have won. That's the barely 19 year old Floyd, with no major champs experience and season's bests of 10.07 (+2.0) and 10.10 (+1.1) and the experienced Wells who ran 10.11 (+1.31) in a heat and who beat Floyd in their first race post-Moscow ............

Anyway, I wondered if anyone could make similar cases for other US male athletes in 1980? Apart from Wilkins, Moses and Skeets I don't think any would have topped the podium in individual events. For that matter, would any of the individual events apart from 110H, 400H and DT have had a different winner if all the boycotting countries had turned up?

[Guest]

Nice question.

Don't have the 80 Olympic Trials stats (which were held after Carter announced the boycott, correct?), but your picks sound reasonable.

But Myricks v Dombrowski would have been something, I reckon.

[eldrick]

Re: If the US had gone to Moscow ..........

I enjoyed the Wells v Floyd debate and the absolute certainty on the part of some posters that Floyd would have won. That's the barely 19 year old Floyd, with no major champs experience and season's bests of 10.07 (+2.0) and 10.10 (+1.1) and the experienced Wells who ran 10.11 (+1.31) in a heat and who beat Floyd in their first race post-Moscow ............

if you're good enough, you're old enough !

we only have to go back to '03 to see 18y old darrel brown run an easing down 10.01 wjr ( shouda been 9.95 if he'd run it flat out ) - fastest time of the meet, then unluckly fail to win gold in the final

floyd was just as talented

[dukehjsteve]

I do not remember specifically who our top 3 400 guys were, but I feel pretty sure one of them could have beaten Viktor Markin.

Mennea would have still had a very good chance of winning the 200... again, I don't remember who our guys were.

Hard to downgrade Dombrowski's 28 footer, he was the best at least on that day. Too soon for Carl, and Myricks would not have beaten Lutz D., no way.

Edit to add 5 minutes later:

I just checked out our 400 guys, they were pretty mediocre compared to prior and future crews. Still and all maybe Willie Smith might have won but doubtful.

[Guest]

I do not remember specifically who our top 3 400 guys were, but I feel pretty sure one of them could have beaten Viktor Markin.

Mennea would have still had a very good chance of winning the 200... again, I don't remember who our guys were.

Hard to downgrade Dombrowski's 28 footer, he was the best at least on that day. Too soon for Carl, and Myricks would not have beaten Lutz D., no way.

Edit to add 5 minutes later:

I just checked out our 400 guys, they were pretty mediocre compared to prior and future crews. Still and all maybe Willie Smith might have won but doubtful.

Think Eldrick posted stats showing Mennea way ahead of everyone in 80 on Brutal's marathon thread.

Why couldn't Myricks have given Dombrowski a fight? A 2cm pb difference in consecutive seasons sounds like a good matchup to me. How was Myricks' 1980 form?

Edit - here are Eldrick's 200 stats:

YearList 1980: 200m (Men)
No. Result Name Country Venue Date
1 19.96 Pietro Mennea ITA Barletta 1980-08-17
2 20.08 LaMonte King USA Walnut 1980-06-15
3 20.21 Allan Wells GBR Moskva 1980-07-28
4 20.26 James Sanford USA Westwood 1980-05-03
Steve Williams USA Bruxelles 1980-08-22
6 20.29 Donald Quarrie JAM Moskva 1980-07-28
7 20.30 Silvio Leonard CUB Moskva 1980-07-28
8 20.34 James Mallard USA Tuscaloosa 1980-04-05
9 20.35 Efrem Coley USA Austin 1980-05-24
10 20.36 James Butler USA Eugene 1980-06-25
11 20.37 Millard Hampton USA Walnut 1980-06-15
12 20.39 Bernhard Hoff GDR Cottbus 1980-07-18

( a very poor year for US 200 running - little argument that mennea was a deserving winner - streets ahead on form ( & he had some other times close to 20 flat ) )

[eldrick]

markin's 44.60 er had only ever been beaten at low-altitude by fred newhouse ( of US guyz ) with his 44.40 silver behind caballo in '76

the list after moscow was:

44.26 - caballo
44.40 - newhouse
44.60 - markin
44.66 - vince
44.70 - honz

difficult to make a case for any other winner, other than markin if he'd run the same superb race

[gh]

In 1980 Myricks set a record with 16 consecutive meets over 8m (26-3). When he and Dombrowski had met at the Wrold Cup the previous year, Myricks won by almost a foot, with a jump almost excactly the same as Dombrowski in Moscow.

I see nothing that suggests an easy victory--if a victory at all--for D, particualrly given the careers of the two after that.

[Guest]

Henry Rono?

[marknhj]

Don Paige in the 800m? LMAO

[eldrick]

Henry Rono?

he was a college runner at least in '78 ( & maybe even in '80 - the guyz here will tell us )

the consensus the guyz gave here in the past was that by '79 he'd been worn out by over-racing & had very little left ( until at least '81, when he'd managed some r & r )

to beat yifter in '80, he wouda needed to run at probably wr pace - maybe 13'06 - 13'08 & 27'20 - 27'25 to have "broken" him ( something the peak rono couda easily have done - i believe all his wrs were virtually solo runs )

as for 3ksc, he had no technique whatsoever ( even in his 8'05.4 wr, he was apparently virtually falling over at every jump ), so under pressure of an og final, he may have had difficulty beating malinowski - but the way bayi ran it may have helped him - rono couda easily followed bayi ( as his pacer ) & eased passed him when bayi self-destructed & certainly rono had the endurance to easily hang on - it really all depended upon his technique

[eldrick]

a healthy ashford over 100/200 wouda probably won it ( although i believe she may not have run the 200 in the trials, so woudn't have been eligible )

certainly she'd have been favorite for the 100

[gh]

Re: If the US had gone to Moscow ..........

I enjoyed the Wells v Floyd debate and the absolute certainty on the part of some posters that Floyd would have won. That's the barely 19 year old Floyd, with no major champs experience and season's bests of 10.07 (+2.0) and 10.10 (+1.1) and the experienced Wells who ran 10.11 (+1.31) in a heat and who beat Floyd in their first race post-Moscow ............

Yes, and then Floyd beat him twice in a row and ended up ranked No. 1 in the world. Not that I'm saying Floyd was the best that year. In a real woulda-coulda-shoulda world it was probably James Sanford, who got injured after running a legal 10.02 and a windy 9.88 with 2.3mps of wind that was THIS CLOSE to being a WR.

[SQUACKEE]

>to beat yifter in '80, he wouda needed to run at probably wr pace - maybe 13'06 - 13'08 & 27'20 - 27'25 to have "broken" him ( something the peak rono couda easily have done - i believe all his wrs were virtually solo runs ) <

Rono was great but it would have been tough to break yifter in a olympic final. DAMN! we will never know!

[Guest]

Was going to suggest Ulrike Meyfarth, but noted she wasn't top 10 ranked in 80 (t&fn rankings), but number 1 in 81, and 9 in 79.

Total loss of form? Injured? Motherhood?

[eldrick]

>to beat yifter in '80, he wouda needed to run at probably wr pace - maybe 13'06 - 13'08 & 27'20 - 27'25 to have "broken" him ( something the peak rono couda easily have done - i believe all his wrs were virtually solo runs ) <

Rono was great but it would have been tough to break yifter in a olympic final. DAMN! we will never know!

i wish i had a 1.5k figure for yifter in '80 - it'd at least give me a bone to gnaw upon...