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  • #46
    Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

    I'd also defy anyone to stand up in a crowded pub or bar in Edinburgh or Cardiff and say that Scotland or Wales isn't a country!
    They may be called countries in British English, but they're not countries in the same sense as, say, France is a country. Likewise, you could say New Jersey is a state and Russia is a state, but the word means something different in each case.
    Last edited by Powell; 09-30-2020, 06:42 PM.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Powell View Post

      Sure they do, just like the US states or German Lands.
      There is no comparison to US states. Entirely different.

      Scotland nearly became a separate country only 6 years ago and still might. Needless to say that doesn't go down well in the US.

      Britain reminds me of an unstable element that liable to fission with the slightest touch.
      Last edited by Conor Dary; 09-30-2020, 07:07 PM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Powell View Post

        They may be called countries in British English, but they're not countries in the same sense as, say, France is a country. Likewise, you could say New Jersey is a state and Russia is a state, but the word means something different in each case.
        Obviously....they are called the home countries in Britain.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by El Toro View Post
          Wikipedia has a table of medals for all CWG Federation members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-ti...es_medal_table

          There's only a few that haven't won any medals at all. Part of this is because the range of sports includes activities that are popular in different areas of the Commonwealth, allowing pretty much every country to be good at something. Even Norfolk Island has some medals, probably from lawn bowls, if memory serves me.
          Yes. I spent one week on Norfolk. Lawn bowling is pretty big there, my wife and I actually bowled there, and we chatted briefly with a Mrs Anderson (can’t remember her first name, it was Filipino) who had medaled at the previous Commonwealth Games.
          Since then, there has been a change in Norfolk’s status. They ran into financial difficulties and they were basically annexed by Australia, and I doubt they still field their own team.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

            His older brother, Callum (400 PB 45.64), ran the first leg in the British 4x400 team at the WCs in Doha last year. I do think Alistair is a better prospect for individual medals in the future. However, they must have Scottish parentage and, I am pretty sure that Callum ran for Scotland at the 2018 Commonwealths and I assume that Alistair will follow suit. That 49.66 is not yet a Guernsey 400H record as his former coach, Dale Garland, ran 49.54.
            interesting. In Manchester though, Alastair pointed at the Guernsey flag on his singlet at the introduction and again after crossing the finish line, so maybe he is a big Guernsey patriot and will compete for them?


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            • #51
              Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

              There is no comparison to US states. Entirely different.

              Scotland nearly became a separate country only 6 years ago and still might. Needless to say that doesn't go down well in the US.

              Britain reminds me of an unstable element that liable to fission with the slightest touch.
              Yes, the current devolved governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have a scope defined by the national government, which can be changed at will by that government, the only exception being certain aspects of Scottish autonomy agreed through The Act of Union. This is completely different to the US states which have a full constitutional life of their own.

              It's worth noting that England doesn't have any devolved governance but is ruled directly by the national government.

              The UK government describes the UK as comprising two countries (England and Scotland), one principality (Wales) and one province (Northern Ireland).

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              • #52
                Originally posted by noone View Post

                interesting. In Manchester though, Alastair pointed at the Guernsey flag on his singlet at the introduction and again after crossing the finish line, so maybe he is a big Guernsey patriot and will compete for them?

                I suspect if Scotland did become independent during his track career, he might be able to compete for them at World and European level and Guernsey at Commonwealth?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post

                  There is no comparison to US states. Entirely different.
                  Every country has a somewhat different setup. But in terms of autonomy, what do Scotland and Wales have that US states don't?
                  Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Powell View Post

                    Every country has a somewhat different setup. But in terms of autonomy, what do Scotland and Wales have that US states don't?
                    There are areas of government where Westminster has no authority in Scotland and Wales but it does in England. As I understand it, the US Federal Government has an equal authority, or lack of authority, across all 50 states.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

                      There are areas of government where Westminster has no authority in Scotland and Wales but it does in England. As I understand it, the US Federal Government has an equal authority, or lack of authority, across all 50 states.
                      That's about right.

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                      • #56
                        But that isn't really the point. Yes, the UK has a non-uniform system of government (which isn't really that unique - many countries have autonomous regions), but even Scotland has no more autonomy than US states do.
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Powell View Post
                          But that isn't really the point. Yes, the UK has a non-uniform system of government (which isn't really that unique - many countries have autonomous regions), but even Scotland has no more autonomy than US states do.
                          Does Scotland have the legal right to secede?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by proofs in the pudd'in View Post

                            Does Scotland have the legal right to secede?
                            Yes.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by El Toro View Post
                              The UK government describes the UK as comprising two countries (England and Scotland), one principality (Wales) and one province (Northern Ireland).
                              I'm British (English) and this is obviously the most accurate, coming from our own government, but also having some basic knowledge here.

                              It's all down to history and largely around the status of each country/area at the time of the Union, and the articles it outlined. By then, Wales was already part of the Kingdom of England and under control of the English Crown - prior to that Wales had been a collection of principalities, post Norman Conquest, although there was a dominant principality who called himself the Prince of Wales. But the vast majority of Wales was under English law and under direct rule - But I would say the average person on the street wouldn't know this at all and would have no idea of the legal differences between country, principality & province and would either call us one country or a kingdom made up of 4 countries.

                              As wiki states, "A country may be an independent sovereign state or part of a larger state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, a physical territory with a government, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated people with distinct political characteristics." So there is a broad brush as to what constitutes a country.

                              As has already been discussed, many sporting organisations lump the Crown dependencies & other overseas territories such as Isle of Mann, Guernsey etc. together with the rest of the UK and they compete under the banner of GB&NI, whilst some allow them to compete separately. The reason why we're pretty complex compared to other 'straight forward' countries is of course because of our history and the huge expanse of the British Empire.
                              Last edited by Wiederganger; 10-05-2020, 07:57 AM. Reason: spelling

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by El Toro View Post


                                The UK government describes the UK as comprising two countries (England and Scotland), one principality (Wales) and one province (Northern Ireland).
                                Slightly out of date - since the Government of the UK Act 1998, the UK government now recognizes Wales as a country not a principality

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