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  • Source for American or World Indoor Record Progression?

    Is there a verified, reliable, and / or widely accepted source for the American Indoor Record Progression? The World Indoor Record Progression?

    Numerous online searches were completed and produced links to various websites that list / report American Indoor Record progressions for a random set of events (e.g., Wikipedia), an individual event (e.g., the Bring Back the Mile website), or a set of events in an event group (e.g., 600yds to 1,000m). While I have no way to verify the accuracy of these various lists, it is clear that a great deal of effort was put into compiling them and they are a valuable source of information.

    That said, is there a source for all of the accepted record events? Is there a source for the Indoor World Best events, relay events, and events that are no longer considered for World and / or American records?

    How about the Outdoor World Best events and Relay events?

    For the Outdoor records, I have a printed copy of The Progression of the American National Record by Dave Carey, Scott S Davis, and Don H Potts (February 1999) and the recent update of the lists by Bill Mallon. I also have multiple versions (2003, 2011, 2015) of the Progression of the IAAF World Records by Richard Hymans.

    The motivation for these lists comes from the research work that I am doing for the Niagara Track & Field Hall of Fame.

    While doing research on track and field meets in Buffalo, New York in the past few months I learned many details of the meets about which I heard innumerable stories when I first became involved in the sport in the late 1960s.

    As it turns out, Buffalo was a regular (if not major) stop on the indoor track and field circuit from the late 1890s through the mid-1950s. The US National AAU Men's Championships were held there in 1922, and 1923, and the US National AAU Women's Championships in 1945, 1952, and 1953.

    The athletes who competed in Buffalo include the top athletes at the time in all events. A list of names would be a Who's Who of the top national and international athletes that would be familiar to many reading this message board.

    Meets were held in three armories and other facilities in the city of Buffalo over the years. The news stories on the meets and meet results report that a number of national and / or world records were set at meets held in Buffalo. I am looking to confirm these records.

    The longer term goal is to produce a report on the history of indoor meets held in Buffalo, the top athletes, and the top performances. A similar report on the Outdoor meets is also in the plans, which also has a body of top competitions and competitors.

    Any and all pointers to sources of the American Indoor Record Progression will be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    for American I don't know of one, but the IAAF/WA stat books that come out for each World Indoor have world indoor progs.

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    • #3
      Quick search of the IAAF WR Progressions book shows Paavo Nurmi with a WIR 5:22.4 for 2000m at the 174th Regiment Armory on Feb. 12, 1925, same meet as Ville Ritola went a WIR 9:03 3/4 for 2 Miles.

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      • #4
        Since I've been working on the AR Progression update, I also do not know of an indoor progression list for American records.

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        • #5
          This doesn't really help your search for an AR Indoor Progressive List, drtrack, however, in my library I came across a short book - "The Evolution of Indoor Records in T&F Athletics - World - Europe - Italy." Its from 1986. Although it is not a US list, there are a lot of US marks in there in the world section and you could probably start work on a US list using those. As noted above, those can also be found in Hymans' books on WR Progressions. For older US marks, one of the problems is I don't think Spalding/AAU Guides listed separate Indoor records usually. They either neglected them or combined them with the outdoor records.

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          • #6
            Thanks for the feedback.

            The pointer to the IAAF/WA World Indoor Stats books was VERY helpful!

            I was aware of the Nurmi and Ritola records from newspaper clippings.

            Bambam, who is the author of "The Evolution of Indoor Records in T&F Athletics - World - Europe - Italy."? An online search for the title didn't produce anything relating to the book.

            --------

            Based on how the newspaper stories were written (and they styles have greatly changed over the years), it appears that the sports writers had lists of records in various sports, including track and field that they referenced while writing a story.

            What source was used by the newspaper sports writers who reported records being set, be they World, American, or otherwise? I have a dozen or so versions of the Spalding Almanacs and have found a few annual Almanacs published by other organizations or newspapers.

            Was there a "go to" publication? If so, what was it?

            --------

            If I cannot confirm / verify a reported record, how should I report it in the planned document on indoor track in Buffalo?

            For example, How do I confirm / verify a reported world indoor record by Allan Woodring in the 300 yard dash?

            If I cannot confirm / verify it, how would that be listed in a list of records set in Buffalo?

            On a related topic, I have found reports of "American Championship Records" being set in at outdoor meets in Buffalo, mostly in relay events. Where do these records fit?

            I'll update this thread as I learn more.

            Thanks, again, for the pointers and suggestions!

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            • #7
              What is the rule of rounding? Atleast in 60's pole vault result 16'2 (492.8cm) was rounded to 493. Does this rule still apply?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by drtrack View Post
                Bambam, who is the author of "The Evolution of Indoor Records in T&F Athletics - World - Europe - Italy."? An online search for the title didn't produce anything relating to the book.
                Jacques Carmelli - Steven J. McPeek - Giorgio Malisani

                McPeek is a Merkan, although I do/did not know him and have never had contact with him. He is listed as from DeSoto, Texas but again the book is from 1986. Maybe Glen McMiken (gm) knows of him or how to contact him, if he still involved in this.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jupo View Post
                  What is the rule of rounding? Atleast in 60's pole vault result 16'2 (492.8cm) was rounded to 493. Does this rule still apply?
                  I've never heard of performances being rounded up

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jupo View Post
                    What is the rule of rounding? Atleast in 60's pole vault result 16'2 (492.8cm) was rounded to 493. Does this rule still apply?
                    The problem with metric/Imperial rounding, which I've been dealing with recently with DJ, Glen McMiken, and E Garry on the USA women's AAU/TAC results is that you don't always know how the mark was originally measured. So in this case, it could have been measured at 493, which might convert by tables to 16-2, but then using an exact conversion of 16-2, it would only come out to 492.8 cm. Problems like this abound, so marks are often off by 1 cm or 1/4". However, Tuariki is correct that performances are never rounded up from the actual measurement.

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                    • #11
                      In '72 Isaksson jumped 18-2 (553,7 cm) for WR 554 cm, so it is rounded up.
                      http://www.artofthevault.com Kjell Isaksson set a world record of 5.54m (18'2") on April 15th, 1972 in  Helsingborg, Sweden. Isaksson improved on his PR and ...

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                      • #12
                        Every rule book I have ever consulted sez round down to nearest full cm or 1/4". I think I have seen performances from olden Imperial days reported to the 1/8". Seems kinda contrary in that they only timed to 1/5 second.



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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jupo View Post
                          In '72 Isaksson jumped 18-2 (553,7 cm) for WR 554 cm, so it is rounded up.
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeBBYSZW7_8
                          Don't believe it.
                          My guess is that the official measurement was 5.54m and rounded down for imperial

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tuariki View Post

                            Don't believe it.
                            My guess is that the official measurement was 5.54m and rounded down for imperial
                            the official measurement at taht point in time in the U.S. almost certainly would have been in Imperial.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gh View Post

                              the official measurement at that point in time in the U.S. almost certainly would have been in Imperial.
                              1972 was my first year to work the Texas Relays. I was raking the pit 100' from the vault when the PA announced a WR in Imperial. We were measuring the LJ in imperial. I am confident the bar measurement was Imperial.

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