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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

    Still find it strange and I'd think the US was the only place in the world where this happened
    But from what I heard, the ATFS Annual didn't include women's lists until around 1980, either.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post

      Swimming World, which started circa 1960, has always covered men and women equally. Tennis magazines in the USA (Tennis Magazine, World Tennis) likewise covered men and women equally.
      Women's swimming was far more advanced than track in 50s and 60s. I started swimming competitively at 9 and there were as many girls as there were boys. And that was true all through high school. And meets always had girls and boys in them.

      Hinsdale Swim Club a powerhouse then had girl life guards etc. Unfortunately for the girls there was no high school girls swimming team, which even then struck me as odd since Hinsdale had a lot of top female swimmers.

      And tennis too was mixed in age group tennis. There were as many girls taking tennis lessons as boys where I grew up.
      Last edited by Conor Dary; 04-10-2021, 03:36 PM.

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      • #18
        I don't know why T&FN didn't cover women then. It could have been that they didn't want to intrude on the women track publications. There were so few women's meets. Also the big relays, Drake and Kansas didn't have any women events.

        Long Distance Log mentioned women when they ran most notably having the first Boston female finisher, Roberta Gibb, on the cover. But there were no women only races and women in races were very rare.

        Compared to swimming and tennis women's running just wasn't much of a thing though there were exceptions. Debbie Heald was my age and she ran as fast as I did in high school.

        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LrvJ2bsFduY
        Last edited by Conor Dary; 04-10-2021, 06:05 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
          I don't know why T&FN didn't cover women then. It could have been that they didn't want to intrude on the women track publications. There were so few women's meets.
          Surely the women's track publications only began because there was no women's coverage in T&FN?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

            Surely the women's track publications only began because there was no women's coverage in T&FN?
            From Louise Tricard's Women's Track history, 1959....



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            • #21
              While that sentiment sure wouldn't fly today, at the time, he was just being old-school candid. Lots of people like to disparage the word 'woke', but I feel it perfectly describes what is happening now, as we emerge from our long slumber of ignorance.

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              • #22
                I remember in 1970 or so they said the same thing again when the question came up..there was no room in the magazine for women's track ....which made sense at the time. Men's track was a pretty big deal. There was more than enough for one magazine.

                Women's track wasn't much...few competitions and fewer cared.
                Last edited by Conor Dary; 04-11-2021, 01:32 AM.

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                • #23
                  The only women sports noticed much at all then were the ones that had women competing at the same time as the men. Swimming and tennis...

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Powell View Post

                    But from what I heard, the ATFS Annual didn't include women's lists until around 1980, either.
                    Apparently, the ATFS Annual had women's stats from 1952 but they were removed for some reason in the 60s. The ATFS then put out a 'Handbook of Women's Track & Field' from 1964 which it appears was published into the 70s. Thankfully the ATFS added women back into the main annual from 1979.

                    The ATFS, at the time, included no females (and still doesn't have many women members), so there may well have been similar views to those of Bert Nelson and few to argue against them.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
                      The only women sports noticed much at all then were the ones that had women competing at the same time as the men. Swimming and tennis...
                      But again, that was a US thing. Internationally, most T&F meets included both men's and women's events.
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                      • #26
                        For a sport that took 32 years to get even one event in the Olympics (1896 to 1928!), and that it took Title IX to rev up Women's coverage of T&F in T&FN---is not surprising!
                        I'd heard of Women's track mags, but couldn't afford them!
                        It took until the very late 70's before my Record Book started including Women's marks!
                        That was due to it being near impossible to find any books or magazines that had that info!
                        But I still didn't like Bert Nelson's decision to not cover them!
                        (I think the first women's coverage in T&FN was in 1973 or 1974 with a story about Mary Decker!)

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Powell View Post

                          But again, that was a US thing. Internationally, most T&F meets included both men's and women's events.
                          In the UK, international meets tended to include both, but, until about the early 1990s, there were a lot of separate meets at national and regional level. In the late 1970s and 1980s there was the UK Championships which was an early season meet with men's and women's events but there was also the AAA Champs for men and WAAA Champs for women. The AAA was always televised and often included some overseas athletes, while the WAAA rarely had overseas athletes, was often not televised and also incorporated the championships for under 17 and under 15 girls. The vast majority of spectators for the WAAA would have had a personal connection to a competitor which was not the case for the AAA.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

                            Here in the UK, Athletics Weekly began in 1946(?) and I think always covered men's and women's sides. I know it covered both in the mid 1960s issues my parents had. This is despite England in particular having separate governing bodies until the early 1990s and quite a lot of men only and women only clubs existing, particularly in London, until around about that time.
                            In the US high school and college track has long been a big deal ...something the UK doesn't have on a significant level so not surprising they would have cover women's track back then.

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                            • #29
                              While not covering women’s track, T&FN did have room for Masters’ track back then.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Trickstat View Post

                                In the UK, international meets tended to include both, but, until about the early 1990s, there were a lot of separate meets at national and regional level. In the late 1970s and 1980s there was the UK Championships which was an early season meet with men's and women's events but there was also the AAA Champs for men and WAAA Champs for women. The AAA was always televised and often included some overseas athletes, while the WAAA rarely had overseas athletes, was often not televised and also incorporated the championships for under 17 and under 15 girls. The vast majority of spectators for the WAAA would have had a personal connection to a competitor which was not the case for the AAA.
                                The Polish championships included both sexes in one meet since 1950. Many, though not all, international matches (which were a big thing in the 1950s and 60s) also had both men's and women's events. So did major meets like the Kusociński Memorial.
                                Last edited by Powell; 04-11-2021, 07:44 PM.
                                Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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