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  • #16
    Originally posted by Atticus View Post
    When he was competing, it sure was.
    As we know there was no $$$$$ in track back then, he always knew his future was in the NFL.

    Sure sure on race day,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post
      Getting back to Bob Hayes, the guy really was just a football player, a running back, track was not his main interest.

      In his book RUN BULLET RUN ,he talks about the track coach asking him to come out for track. Reminds me of how Tommie Smith went to SJS on a basketball ride.

      He also played basketball and baseball. Love to see some video of that, Hayes trying to beat out a grounder to first, whoa!

      ESPN did a thing some years about the Fastest NFL Players ever, Bullet Bob was behind Darrel Green, hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

      I never thought I'd ever see anyone faster than Buller Bob, And if we play this......with todays yaketyyak....not sure I have with the exception of Bolt who is a legit freak of nature.



      Smith has always been a big favorite of mine. We are talking here about his half lap capabilities, how about over one lap? In a single race over a lap, I would put my money on him. Took down Lee Evans in 1967 at SJS, and late 1966 in London (?), he ran down Wendell Mottley, who was having an incredible year.
      Back in TFN in 1966, I believe it was an article by Dick Drake. Tommie at school was probably not even running track. One of his sisters (Sally ?) was beating many of the boys in the sprints, coach asked her to bring along any brothers who ran fast. Tommie demolished his (older ?) sister in races, and started running track somewhat regularly.

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      • #18
        in an "idealized" 400 Smith would be my choice to win (with a time in the 42s)

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post
          Getting back to Bob Hayes, the guy really was just a football player, a running back, track was not his main interest.

          In his book RUN BULLET RUN ,he talks about the track coach asking him to come out for track. Reminds me of how Tommie Smith went to SJS on a basketball ride.

          He also played basketball and baseball. Love to see some video of that, Hayes trying to beat out a grounder to first, whoa!

          ESPN did a thing some years about the Fastest NFL Players ever, Bullet Bob was behind Darrel Green, hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

          I never thought I'd ever see anyone faster than Buller Bob, And if we play this......with todays yaketyyak....not sure I have with the exception of Bolt who is a legit freak of nature.



          If I remember correctly, the book outlined some of his training. Something like 50yd sprints on dirt roads with a 50yd walk rest for something like 5-10 miles. Definitely not the technique and periodization training of today.

          Hayes was an amazing talent, but optimizing his training with the best of modern training methods on today's surfaces with today's sports medicine, my money is still squarely placed on Bolt.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by gh View Post
            in an "idealized" 400 Smith would be my choice to win (with a time in the 42s)
            Originally posted by steve View Post
            Hayes was an amazing talent, but optimizing his training with the best of modern training methods on today's surfaces with today's sports medicine, my money is still squarely placed on Bolt.
            My thinking has changed several times over the years, but I'm back to agreeing with gh here, but not steve.

            Assuming Bolt, Hayes and Smith, M Johnson had all been born in 1999 (22 now) and having run in HS and college, I'd say that Bolt and Hayes are co-faves and Tommie is the clear fave.
            Hayes and Smith run WRs in Tokyo (new shoes) in 9.33 and 42.60. Bolt and MJ trail in 9.39 and 42.82.

            This is just IMO, your mileage may vary.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by gh View Post
              in an "idealized" 400 Smith would be my choice to win (with a time in the 42s)
              I don't think an idealized Smith could drop 1.5-2 seconds off his 400 time just with modern training. He would be a distant third/fourth behind WVN, MJ, and Quincy Watts. He would have been happy with to break a 44 near sea level. He was a great sprinter with picturesque form, but he didn't leave a lot on the table like Hayes did, because Bud Winter was a very progressive coach who's methods approximate today's quite well.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                This MUST have been discussed before, but this video purports to 'prove' that Hayes ran 8.58 that day - by counting frames.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5OhpzFZ0ys

                Does that seem legit?
                If so, I'm not so sure that GOAT Bolt could have run that fast on that track.
                Yes, no, maybe so?
                In this video the timer is started way after Hayes crossed the mid-zone line… The time taken by soviet analysts was 9.0-9.1, and you can check with this video that their time was correct.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by steve View Post

                  I don't think an idealized Smith could drop 1.5-2 seconds off his 400 time just with modern training. ...
                  modern training, PLUS being able to afford to train like a pro, modern surfaces (i don't think he ever ran a 400 on anything but "dirt"), modern wide-radius turns (particularly important to a long-legger like him). Not to mention experience running the race and maximizing pacing (I doubt he ran much more than a half-dozen full-lappers in his career).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by gh View Post

                    modern training, PLUS being able to afford to train like a pro, modern surfaces (i don't think he ever ran a 400 on anything but "dirt"), modern wide-radius turns (particularly important to a long-legger like him). Not to mention experience running the race and maximizing pacing (I doubt he ran much more than a half-dozen full-lappers in his career).
                    Modern training, including training as a pro (though I'm sure he put in the requisite hours) with the benefit of physiotherapy, etc, maybe could have taken off a 0.5-0.75. He ran 19.8 around a turn in the 200 and a 19.5 on the straight. The turn in the 200 has a bigger impact than the 400, so I would give him 0.15 off. The experience and pacing aspect might add another 0.2 seconds. His best 400m time was a 44.5 hand so really a 44.8. Doing the math that's 44.8-.75-.15-.2= 43.7. So you see it's all very scientific 🤩😜

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                    • #25
                      On September 28th, 1968, in Victoria, B.C., Tommie Smith was taking the relay baton from John Carlos in the 4 x 100 metres. A couple of metres ahead, Jimmie Hines already
                      had the baton from Ronnie Ray Smith and was flying away. Except as soon as Tommie got the baton, he was flying faster. He ran down Hines, with about a 2-metre deficit,
                      and of course, Hines was a only a couple of weeks away from running the fastest 100 metres ever in winning the 100 m. in Mexico City. It was incredible, to say the least !
                      I should add that Carlos, on the 3rd leg had already gained back a couple of metres on Ronnie Ray Smith ... after Charlie Greene and Mel Pender had opened up about a 4 metre (or so) advantage over Charlie Mays and Larry Questad on the first two legs.
                      Last edited by rsb3; 07-26-2021, 05:06 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rsb3 View Post
                        On September 28th, 1968, in Victoria, B.C., Tommie Smith was taking the relay baton from John Carlos in the 4 x 100 metres. A couple of metres ahead, Jimmie Hines already
                        had the baton from Ronnie Ray Smith and was flying away. Except as soon as Tommie got the baton, he was flying faster. He ran down Hines, with about a 2-metre deficit,
                        and of course, Hines was a only a couple of weeks away from running the fastest 100 metres ever in winning the 100 m. in Mexico City. It was incredible, to say worktime the least !
                        I should add that Carlos, on the 3rd leg had already gained back a couple of metres on Ronnie Ray Smith ... after Charlie Greene and Mel Pender had opened up about a 4 metre (or so) advantage over Charlie Mays and Larry Questad on the first two legs.
                        why is it so exciting?
                        employee tracking
                        Last edited by Oliviia; 08-13-2021, 10:34 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Oliviia View Post

                          why is it so exciting?
                          Because Tommie Smith was really a 200/400 runner but he showed incredible speed in running down Hines who would shortly set the world record. There are many that view Tommie Smith as someone who was as or more talented than Usain Bolt, but was limited by the lack of professional support, among other things. Despite my trying to take the opposite view in several posts, posts like the one by GH and this one make me doubt my position.

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                          • #28
                            Hayes had a very good career in the NFL. I bet Alex Wilson could have been a great running back.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Oliviia View Post

                              why is it so exciting?
                              Many reasons, much of it already stated by others. His winning time in the 1968 OG was run with a fairly full out effort over only the last 60 meters or so - see the video to see how much ground he made up on a tiring Carlos. His college seasons (at SJS) were marked by taking part in many events one each meet - he was a fairly decent long jumper, with a best of about 25 feet 11 inches, if I recall correctly. Old timers will all agree that his best event was probably the 400/400, which he ran very infrequently, not counting relay duty. In the occasional foray he took down some of the best around - Evans and Mottley. If I recall from the TFN article on him in 1966, he first ran the one lapper at age about 17, without proper training. coming in below 48 sec.. If Smith had run a leg on the 1968 4 x 400 relay, instead of Vince Matthews, their winning time would have been close to the current WR - of course at altitude).

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by steve View Post

                                If I remember correctly, the book outlined some of his training. Something like 50yd sprints on dirt roads with a 50yd walk rest for something like 5-10 miles. Definitely not the technique and periodization training of today.

                                Hayes was an amazing talent, but optimizing his training with the best of modern training methods on today's surfaces with today's sports medicine, my money is still squarely placed on Bolt.
                                I totally agree, nobody on a par with Bolt, here we are entering into the super natural.

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