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In Praise of Brittney Reese

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  • #31
    Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post

    ..None of these guys today strike me as being the total package.
    Not even Echevarría?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post

      You ain't kiddin'! And it didn't take long for Myricks to step up his game. Unless I see one or more guys popping 8.50 on a consistent basis, I doubt that they will ever crack my all-time top 10. None of these guys today strike me as being the total package.
      I'm just finishing up a research project that I've worked on off-and-on since the mid 80s - a catalog of all of the 27 foot jumps by Myricks and Lewis.

      Myricks had 96 career jumps of 27-6 or longer, and 29 jumps of 8.50 or longer.

      Lewis didn't have nearly the volume of competitions Myricks did, but he had 136 (!!) jumps of 27-6 or longer, including 87 of at least 8.50 and 21 jumps at 8.70.

      I think I also had a compilation for Mike Powell, but it was only on paper and it seems to be gone. The only other jumper who is up with them in terms of 27 footers is Pedroso, and I know I never compiled his list.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by cigar95 View Post

        I'm just finishing up a research project that I've worked on off-and-on since the mid 80s - a catalog of all of the 27 foot jumps by Myricks and Lewis.

        Myricks had 96 career jumps of 27-6 or longer, and 29 jumps of 8.50 or longer.

        Lewis didn't have nearly the volume of competitions Myricks did, but he had 136 (!!) jumps of 27-6 or longer, including 87 of at least 8.50 and 21 jumps at 8.70.

        I think I also had a compilation for Mike Powell, but it was only on paper and it seems to be gone. The only other jumper who is up with them in terms of 27 footers is Pedroso, and I know I never compiled his list.
        Counting ancillary jumps and indoor marks, I have Pedroso with 166 marks at 8.23 or better.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post

          There was far more dirt in the shot than it ever was in the long jump or triple jump. More shot-putters are getting caught dirty even today than horizontal jumpers.
          Ahh, the eternal truth that it is always the OTHER events/countries/sports that are dirty.

          Firstly, hardly anybody got caught doping in the 80s and what doping control there was, was targeted at throwers, so it's not surprising they were caught more often. If you rarely test certain events, your chances of getting caught are next to zero - see USA pro sports.

          Secondly, the male shot putters NOT getting caught are at a higher overall level of performance now than heavily doped putters in the 80s, and that's in an unpopular event. In the modern day, elite sprinters seem to be caught more often than SPers.

          Now, LJ, a slightly more popular event than SP, is worse than the 80s as are many women's events, so you might need to reconsider how useful doping is to ANY power event and what was happening across the board in the 1980s.

          Oh, and yes, praise be to Brittney Reese - she's outstanding!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bad hammy View Post
            By pretty much any objective criteria JJK is a superior LJer to Reese.
            You mean, other than Olympic medal tally, World medal tally, World Indoor medal tally and number 1 rankings? Pray tell what the objective criteria is, because it just seems to be distances?

            JJK's career clashed with Drechsler's, yes, but that's precisely what pushed them to greater distances - amongst other things. And had they not been competing in the late 80's and 90's, you can bet they wouldn't have been jumping as far...

            I think I get it now. So as my other post said, I guess Natalya Lisovskaya is the greatest female SPer of all time, greater than Adams, because her one Olympic & World gold is better than Adams two and four, because her distances were massively further and Adams never threw over 22m in a Champs. And Hellmann's one Olympic gold & two World golds are better than Perkovic's two Olympic and two World golds, silver & bronze, because Perkovic never threw over 71m in a Championships.

            Since when did performances out rank medals and world rankings? 🙄



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            • #36
              Originally posted by gh View Post

              Not even Echevarría?
              With 8.68, 8.66 and 8.65, and 8.92w and 8.83w (2.1!); methinks he should have won going away in Tokyo, even if his PR wasn't that far ahead of Tentóglou's (8.60).

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              • #37
                Originally posted by cigar95 View Post

                I'm just finishing up a research project that I've worked on off-and-on since the mid 80s - a catalog of all of the 27 foot jumps by Myricks and Lewis.

                Myricks had 96 career jumps of 27-6 or longer, and 29 jumps of 8.50 or longer.

                Lewis didn't have nearly the volume of competitions Myricks did, but he had 136 (!!) jumps of 27-6 or longer, including 87 of at least 8.50 and 21 jumps at 8.70.

                I think I also had a compilation for Mike Powell, but it was only on paper and it seems to be gone. The only other jumper who is up with them in terms of 27 footers is Pedroso, and I know I never compiled his list.
                When Lewis came along with his first 28-footer in 1981, Myricks had yet to reach that plateau. He was stuck at 8.52 (from 1979, a half-inch short); then Lutz Dombrowski popped 8.54 in Moscow 1980. But after Lewis popped his big 8.76 jump in the summer of 1982, to be followed by what looked to be a 30-foot foul (or very close to that), that's when Myricks really got his mojo going, with his first 28-footer (8.56) in Rhede later that summer.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                  JJK's career clashed with Drechsler's, yes, but that's precisely what pushed them to greater distances - amongst other things. And had they not been competing in the late 80's and 90's, you can bet they wouldn't have been jumping as far...
                  Are you sure about that? 🤔 Jackie was as clean as they came; which to me makes her 7.4x performances worth the same in this day and age. I will not punish or penalize her for her performances coming in an age where the dirt was still rampant. [And may I add, nor did I punish the highly-suspected but never caught.] I cannot comment on who and how far the GDR went with their state-sponsored program; but 5 years after the Wall came down, Drechsler was still popping long performances, including her barely-wind-aided 25-footer in 1992. As gifted as these two were, I'd bet they'd still leave everyone far behind if they were jumping today. They didn't start to lose their mojos until after Atlanta 1996 (Jackie first, being 2 years older). Like the pound-for-pound boxing argument, in the era-for-era argument, I'd still have to lean toward Jackie at #2. Those 3 big ones in the big ones (against Drechsler) are hard for me to ignore.
                  Last edited by CookyMonzta; 09-20-2021, 11:14 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post
                    Jackie was as clean as they came
                    Let's. Not. Go. There.



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                    • #40
                      To All that rank JJK higher than Reese, please can you tell me your:

                      Top female SPer
                      Top female DTer
                      Top female JTer

                      Because I want to see you apply the same logic as you did with JJK v Reese in the LJ....

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                      • #41
                        this thread is on the cusp of being locked down

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by gm View Post

                          Counting ancillary jumps and indoor marks, I have Pedroso with 166 marks at 8.23 or better.
                          I have Myricks with 233 legal and 41 windy. Lewis has 166 (!!) legal and 52 windy.
                          In Myricks' case, I'm probably missing 4-5 more from meets I was never able to find a full series.
                          He had a total of 20 28-footers, 13 legal and 7 windy. Pedroso had a lot more at that level.

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                          • #43
                            My biggest argument concerning JJK is one with a buddy in HS. I'm convinced she could dunk. He was sure she couldn't.
                            The muscles, explosiveness and coordination required to jump 24 feet seem to usually go with vertical jumping as well.
                            You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
                              You mean, other than Olympic medal tally, World medal tally, World Indoor medal tally and number 1 rankings? Pray tell what the objective criteria is, because it just seems to be distances
                              jjk vs reese.JPG


                              I stand by my ranking of JJK over Reese in the LJ and for me it is not a tough call. And oh yeah, the LJ was JJKs secondary event. While Reese has concentrated on the LJ, JJK was splitting her training & competitive time with the Hept, earning four WRs, two OG golds (plus a silver) and six T&FN No. 1 rankings, not to mention three T&FN world rankings and two indoor ARs in the hurdles. Note that I'm ignoring WCs - Reese had way more opportunities - but even with those it is still clear to me that JJK was a better LJer than Reese. I know who I'd put my money on in their prime . . .
                              Last edited by bad hammy; 09-21-2021, 03:00 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by bad hammy View Post




                                I stand by my ranking of JJK over Reese in the LJ and for me it is not a tough call. And oh yeah, the LJ was JJKs secondary event. While Reese has concentrated on the LJ, JJK was splitting her training & competitive time with the Hept, earning four WRs, two OG golds (plus a silver) and six T&FN No. 1 rankings, not to mention three T&FN world rankings and two indoor ARs in the hurdles. Note that I'm ignore WCs - Reese had way more opportunities - but even with those it is still clear to me that JJK was a better LJer than Reese.
                                Totally irrelevant that the LJ was JJK's secondary event.

                                JJK won 3 OG golds, not 2, but only 1 LJ gold. Only the LJ gold counts.

                                BR had "way more opportunities" in WC LJ than JJK? How do you reach that conclusion? JJK competed in LJ at internation level in terms of performance from 1983 to 2000. Therefore she had 9 WC oppirtunities.

                                While I agree with you that JJK is ahead of BR, only marginally though, you are showing a massive bias by not including the WCs but then including JJK' s OG heptathlon golds.


                                ​​​​

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