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In Praise of Brittney Reese

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  • rhymans
    replied
    In doing the write-up of the 2021 OT for the 2024 OT e-book on the T&FN site I realised that Reese may be the best OT competitor ever - 4 OT consecutive wins [better than Lewis or Oerter [who never won - he was saving himself for later each year] - and every time she won it was with a seasonal best, twice with PRs including in 2016 her lifetime best.

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  • scottmitchell74
    replied
    The men face the same issue. I don't know if King Carl spoiled us but I miss the days when 27'6" was the beginning of the conversation.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post

    Where are all the 23m women's shot putters, a standard that should have been met by now, as we watched the triple jump WR go from 49 feet to 50 feet to 51 feet...

    There was far more dirt in the shot than it ever was in the long jump or triple jump. More shot-putters are getting caught dirty even today than horizontal jumpers.

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  • Steele
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post

    yes, the same thing the '60s and '70s and today have
    Maybe not a difference in kind, but certainly a difference in degree.

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  • gh
    replied
    Originally posted by Steele View Post
    The 80s and 90s had other things that make it difficult to compare eras.
    yes, the same thing the '60s and '70s and today have

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  • El Toro
    replied
    Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post

    A standard that should have been met by now, as we watched the triple jump WR go from 49 feet to 50 feet to 51 feet...
    Where are all the 23m women's shot putters, a standard that should have been met by now, as we watched the triple jump WR go from 49 feet to 50 feet to 51 feet...


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  • Steele
    replied
    The 80s and 90s had other things that make it difficult to compare eras.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    Originally posted by Steele View Post
    Where are the 24 footers? In the 80s.
    A standard that should have been met by now, as we watched the triple jump WR go from 49 feet to 50 feet to 51 feet...

    The WR that Yulimar Rojas broke was set by a 24-foot long jumper (Kravets 7.37 in 1992). Thirteen of the thirty-seven 24-footers came in the 1990s, 2 from 2000 onwards. Reese (7.31 in 2016) and Mihambo (7.30 in 2019) have been the closest since.

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  • Steele
    replied
    Where are the 24 footers? In the 80s.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post
    JJK showed no appetite for World Indoor titles, so that's her fault. And Worlds aside, Reese has a superior Olympic record, and that's the pinnacle and prime event.
    She was primarily a hurdler throughout her indoor career.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    And yet, the question that sticks out like a sore thumb remains: Where are the 24-footers? Since Heike and Jackie retired, only two (Tatyana Kotova 7.42 in 2002, and Tatyana Lebedeva 7.33 in 2004) have broken 24 feet. Add Simagina, Reese and Mihambo, and you have 5 who have jumped at least 7.25 since Sydney 2000. Only 7 (+Kolchanova) have jumped 7.20.

    At a time when triple-jumps of 15 meters (starting with Ana Biryukova in 1993), 50 feet and even 51 feet are coming like clockwork, you'd think the 24-foot barrier would have been reached by many on the world circuit and many times over. But unlike in the 1980s and 1990s, it is just not happening, even at the 7.20m mark, where only 2 (again, Reese and Mihambo) have jumped that far in the last decade.

    In this event, given how several women (not just Heike and JJK) rewrote the standard in this event, right now performance matters as much as the honors a particular individual has won. The competition was so much more formidable back then, compared to today.

    So, forgive me if I'm not yet sold on winning marks in the 6.80-7.19 range (with a big exception for Brittney winning very ugly in 2011), when we've had winners jumping as far as 7.40, with the rest of the top 3 in the same competition farther than 7.10 on more than one occasion. Today's jumpers would have had their lunch money snatched by the jumpers of the 1980s and 1990s. And make no mistake; the competition that Jackie had (even without Heike) was tougher than what Brittney had this past decade and a half, and many of them jumped much farther on the circuit.

    Wiederganger: You missed a couple of items in your medal comparison: Jackie finished 5th in Los Angeles 1984, and Brittney failed to qualify at the 2015 World Champs in Beijing.

    Be that as it may, the quality of the performances, to go with the competitors, mattered to me more. And those world circuit performances (consider Sestriere 1994) steered me toward keeping Jackie as my #2. If Brittney had cracked a couple of 24-footers along the way (one at a very big meet, not necessarily the Olympics or World Champs), she might have made a better case for me.
    Last edited by CookyMonzta; 09-19-2021, 02:32 AM.

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  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by gh View Post
    In addition to having to go up against Drechsler in her prime, JJK also had fewer WC opportunities, like no indoor in '85 because the meet hadn't been invented yet,, and WC outdoors in '85 and '89 because it wa still on a 4-year cycle. Having said that, I'd also take Reese over JJK, however. But it's very close, all things considered. It's easy to overrate people from the '90s on just because of the number of WC opportunities they have.
    Had there been a Worlds in 85, JJK had a chance of a medal - she beat Chistyakova in Zurich and Rome - but no gold. Drechsler would have won, and I think the Soviets would likely have squeezed her out. 89 was another matter though, she was a changed athlete by then. But even with those 2 extra opportunities, she would not have matched Reese's 4 golds.

    JJK showed no appetite for World Indoor titles, so that's her fault. And Worlds aside, Reese has a superior Olympic record, and that's the pinnacle and prime event.

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  • gh
    replied
    In addition to having to go up against Drechsler in her prime, JJK also had fewer WC opportunities, like no indoor in '85 because the meet hadn't been invented yet,, and WC outdoors in '85 and '89 because it wa still on a 4-year cycle. Having said that, I'd also take Reese over JJK, however. But it's very close, all things considered. It's easy to overrate people from the '90s on just because of the number of WC opportunities they have.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    Originally posted by Wiederganger View Post

    Really? HD yes*, but Reese overtakes JJK as number 2:

    JJK V Reese:
    Olympics - JJK has 1 gold and 2 bronze, Reese has 1 gold and 2 silvers (and one 5th place)
    Worlds - JJK has 2 gold, a 5th & a 6th; Reese has 4 gold and an 8th
    World Indoors - JJK 0, Reese has 3 golds
    WRs - JJK 1 , Reese 0
    No1 Rankings - JJK 3 x number 1 and 2 x number 2; Reese has 7 x number 1 rankings, 2 x number 3, and a 2/3 from this season - watch this space.

    How is JJK set in stone above Reese? Reese is clearly above JJK now, she beats her in every dept apart form that one WR? I think JJK's overall haul is clouding their judgement on her LJ alone.

    (*HD different as a better Olym record and with 10 x number 1 rankings & 4 x number 2 rankings, plus 3 WRs outdoors, not even mentioning her WRs indoors and over 400 7m+ jumps)
    The things that keeps me from putting Brittney above JJK is that (1) JJK went up against the best in the business and cracked her a few times (including an Olympics and TWO World Champs, no less); (2) she jumped at least 24 feet seven times; and (3) has jumped at least 7.25 on 11 occasions (Brittney only twice). Not to mention that Jackie got very close to that WR twice, at 32.

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  • Steele
    replied
    Well said, Weider.

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