In Praise of Brittney Reese

[bad hammy]

And while you might have been proven correct that JJK would have bettered Dreschler if she had concentrated solely on the LJ, we will never know. However, IMO, I don't think she would have.

Fair enough - it's an unanswerable question and besides, who would have wanted a world where JJK skipped the hept?? And there's a fair argument to be made that without the hept training she wouldn't have been the long jumper she was. Same for Drechsler, who was no slouch in the hept. Maybe that's why those two are on the top of the wLJ GOAT list.


Looking at our JJK vs. Reese discussion, I've been told offline by a couple of folks who know a lot more about these things than I do (which is less than zip) that JJK's LJ technique is 'better' than Reese's. This is an interesting aspect of athetic evaluation that I'm not qualified to take any sides on and would have nothing to do with my evaluation of GOATness in this case, but I'm confident other folks around here have the requisite knowledge to comment on LJ technique.


CookyMonzta: Thanks for the fact check - I've edited the post.

[CookyMonzta]

Bad hammy: You overlooked Jackie's participation at the 1995 (6th) and 1997 (7th) World Champs, where (1) she didn't compete in the heptathlon, and (2) by then her mojo was running out fast, and so was Heike's, but not as quickly. Only in 1998 (36) did she give the hep one last try, before Father Time came calling for sure.

Be that as it may, once again, let me ask, why does he not think that Jackie's performances today are worth every centimeter that she posted back then? [And before I forget, I do make exceptions for performances across eras, depending on the circumstances and the event.]

[Tuariki]

In your evaluation of the wLJ GOAT, which I understand and respect. In my evaluation it is not totally irrelevant; if JJK concetrated on the LJ we'd probably wouldn't be having this conversation because JJK would probably be the clear GOAT, Drechsler second and Reese third. That said, ignoring extraneous events & hypotheses of what might have been, it is still my opinion that JJK was a better LJer than Reese.

And as I said previously, like you, I have JJK ahead of Reese.
And while you might have been proven correct that JJK would have bettered Dreschler if she had concentrated solely on the LJ, we will never know. However, IMO, I don't think she would have.

[bad hammy]

Totally irrelevant that the LJ was JJK's secondary event.

In your evaluation of the wLJ GOAT, which I understand and respect. In my evaluation it is not totally irrelevant; if JJK concetrated on the LJ we'd probably wouldn't be having this conversation because JJK would probably be the clear GOAT, Drechsler second and Reese third. That said, ignoring extraneous events & hypotheses of what might have been, it is still my opinion that JJK was a better LJer than Reese.

The fact that you start you list with distances, rather than hardware and number 1 rankings, explains it all.

JJK wasn't some one-hit/one-year-wonder distance freak who couldn't produce under pressure (setting wLJ World, Olympic & WC records, the last two still current) or over time. Conversely, Reese is not the personification of championship perfection. Both have an OG gold and some OG loses. While Reese has two more WC golds than JJK (that's why she's in this conversation), JJK never lost a WC LJ - Reese has, twice. (Edit: strike the comment that JJK never lost a WC LJ - like Reese she didn't come home with the gold twice.)

As for marks, by every measure JJK jumps farther than Reese, by a lot, overall and in championship meets. JJK went up against the wLJ GOAT Drechsler pretty much every year of her career and beat her on a regular basis, including three times in the T&FN ratings. Reese would stuggle to beat JJK 10% of the time. If it were possible to set up a series of meets matching these two outstanding athletes in their prime, you'd go broke in a hurry betting big bucks on Reese.

Again, no knock on Reese: Drechsler is the GOAT and JJK was right there with her, Reese is third.


Updated for your pleasure (added info plus to correct a couple of minor errors, like giving Reese an extra OG gold):

jjk vs reese III.JPG

[Atticus]

Not sure there was much (any) discussion about Reese's retirement.

If BR wins next years WC in Eugene I would move her ahead of JJK.

Oops.

[Wiederganger]

jjk vs reese.JPG


I stand by my ranking of JJK over Reese in the LJ and for me it is not a tough call. And oh yeah, the LJ was JJKs secondary event. While Reese has concentrated on the LJ, JJK was splitting her training & competitive time with the Hept, earning four WRs, two OG golds (plus a silver) and six T&FN No. 1 rankings, not to mention three T&FN world rankings and two indoor ARs in the hurdles. Note that I'm ignoring WCs - Reese had way more opportunities - but even with those it is still clear to me that JJK was a better LJer than Reese. I know who I'd put my money on in their prime . . .

The fact that you start you list with distances, rather than hardware and number 1 rankings, explains it all.

When it comes to rankings, one cannot include random subjective elements to support your biased argument, such as 'secondary event' nonsense. It's clear from your list Reese beats JJK in every aspect bar distances.

As I said earlier I'm expecting you have Adams below Lisovskaya and Slupianek; Perkovic behind Hellman & Wyludda; Spotakova behind Felke, or else your argument falls flat on it's face.

[Tuariki]

1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1997 (JJK didn't compete at all in 1999 and only jumped at the OT in 2000).

That's 6 or 7, not 9.

My bad re 1985, 1989.
However, as she competed in 2000 there was the opportunity to compete in 1999- therefore potentially 7 WCs, through to age 38.

From the age of 20, BR also had the potential to compete in 7 WCs, through to age 35. If BR wins next years WC in Eugene I would move her ahead of JJK. And if she breaks the WR I would move her to #1.

[gm]

BR had "way more opportunities" in WC LJ than JJK? How do you reach that conclusion? JJK competed in LJ at internation level in terms of performance from 1983 to 2000. Therefore she had 9 WC oppirtunities.

1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1995, 1997 (JJK didn't compete at all in 1999 and only jumped at the OT in 2000).

That's 6 or 7, not 9.

[Tuariki]

I stand by my ranking of JJK over Reese in the LJ and for me it is not a tough call. And oh yeah, the LJ was JJKs secondary event. While Reese has concentrated on the LJ, JJK was splitting her training & competitive time with the Hept, earning four WRs, two OG golds (plus a silver) and six T&FN No. 1 rankings, not to mention three T&FN world rankings and two indoor ARs in the hurdles. Note that I'm ignore WCs - Reese had way more opportunities - but even with those it is still clear to me that JJK was a better LJer than Reese.

Totally irrelevant that the LJ was JJK's secondary event.

JJK won 3 OG golds, not 2, but only 1 LJ gold. Only the LJ gold counts.

BR had "way more opportunities" in WC LJ than JJK? How do you reach that conclusion? JJK competed in LJ at internation level in terms of performance from 1983 to 2000. Therefore she had 9 WC oppirtunities.

While I agree with you that JJK is ahead of BR, only marginally though, you are showing a massive bias by not including the WCs but then including JJK' s OG heptathlon golds.

[bad hammy]

You mean, other than Olympic medal tally, World medal tally, World Indoor medal tally and number 1 rankings? Pray tell what the objective criteria is, because it just seems to be distances

jjk vs reese.JPG


I stand by my ranking of JJK over Reese in the LJ and for me it is not a tough call. And oh yeah, the LJ was JJKs secondary event. While Reese has concentrated on the LJ, JJK was splitting her training & competitive time with the Hept, earning four WRs, two OG golds (plus a silver) and six T&FN No. 1 rankings, not to mention three T&FN world rankings and two indoor ARs in the hurdles. Note that I'm ignoring WCs - Reese had way more opportunities - but even with those it is still clear to me that JJK was a better LJer than Reese. I know who I'd put my money on in their prime . . .

[scottmitchell74]

My biggest argument concerning JJK is one with a buddy in HS. I'm convinced she could dunk. He was sure she couldn't.
The muscles, explosiveness and coordination required to jump 24 feet seem to usually go with vertical jumping as well.

[cigar95]

Counting ancillary jumps and indoor marks, I have Pedroso with 166 marks at 8.23 or better.

I have Myricks with 233 legal and 41 windy. Lewis has 166 (!!) legal and 52 windy.
In Myricks' case, I'm probably missing 4-5 more from meets I was never able to find a full series.
He had a total of 20 28-footers, 13 legal and 7 windy. Pedroso had a lot more at that level.

[gh]

this thread is on the cusp of being locked down

[Wiederganger]

To All that rank JJK higher than Reese, please can you tell me your:

Top female SPer
Top female DTer
Top female JTer

Because I want to see you apply the same logic as you did with JJK v Reese in the LJ....

[Wiederganger]

Jackie was as clean as they came

Let's. Not. Go. There.