Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Raelene Boyle calls for IOC to right the wrongs of the GDR past

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • El Toro
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Meanwhile....

    British Cycling allowed to use private drug-testing labs by UK Anti-Doping - Wada
    INteresting. I know the WADA rules but is there an actual logical difference between using a private lab to test multiple supplements for nandrolone contamination vs testing the athlete's urine to see if nandrolone contamination from those multiple supplements appears?

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Meanwhile....

    British Cycling allowed to use private drug-testing labs by UK Anti-Doping - Wada

    UK Anti-Doping allowed British Cycling to drug test its own riders in a private laboratory, an investigation by the World Anti-Doping Agency has confirmed.

    In 2011, British Cycling staff broke rules by collecting samples and using a non-Wada accredited laboratory.

    It was for the purpose of screening for nandrolone, a prohibited substance.

    The investigation confirmed "potential wrongdoing by individuals in both British Cycling and Ukad at that time".

    Despite the findings, neither Ukad nor British Cycling face any punishment.

    Wada said it was making "no corrective recommendations" because those involved in the events of early 2011 are no longer employed by Ukad or British Cycling.


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/58974838

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
    Yes it is a potential double whammy. On one hand, you could end up awarding a gold to the first non-GDR finisher who was an undetected PED user. On the other, there will be clean athletes who were beaten by non-GDR performers who were doping who won't get a gold.

    I have heard it said that, outside of the GDR, PED use in swimming in the '70s and '80s was much less widespread than it was in T&F.
    I followed swimming starting in the 60s and I don't recall anything, while at the same time stories on steroids in track were in T&FN. Until goggles were used there was a limit on your time in the pool.

    I just don't see the IOC undoing it all and opening a big can of worms that few care about now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trickstat
    replied
    Yes it is a potential double whammy. On one hand, you could end up awarding a gold to the first non-GDR finisher who was an undetected PED user. On the other, there will be clean athletes who were beaten by non-GDR performers who were doping who won't get a gold.

    I have heard it said that, outside of the GDR, PED use in swimming in the '70s and '80s was much less widespread than it was in T&F.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by El Toro View Post
    However, I'm sure all the doped (but undocumented) athletes promoted to gold or other metals in the absence of East Germans will manage a wry smile.
    Exactly. It's like the Sydney women's 100m all over. Take away a GDR medal, only to hand it - or not, in the Sydney case - to another cheat. There's just no point.

    Leave a comment:


  • El Toro
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave View Post

    I’m not sure how you “right the wrongs” that were so pervasive. It didn’t start in the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, or even the 60s.
    Fundamentally, you can't, and that's the problem with this proposal. All you would do is create a different version of wrong and that's not a solution, just a grotesque idiocy.

    However, I'm sure all the doped (but undocumented) athletes promoted to gold or other metals in the absence of East Germans will manage a wry smile.

    While FINA is grandstanding, they might as well resolve all the historical grievances on the Balkan peninsular. That'll be easier than getting doping adjusted results "right".

    Leave a comment:


  • bambam1729
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave View Post
    Per this NY Times article, PEDs have been part of the game since at least the 1950s.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/17/a...s-not-how.html
    Much earlier than that - here are the opening paragraphs of a chapter on doping I wrote in a book from about 30 years ago.

    The history of drug use in sports is almost as old as the history of sport itself. Today, the International Olympic Committee often discusses drug use in sports using the term “doping.” Doping is the European term for drug use but the term is not often used in the United States. Even the name itself has a history, as the name doping comes from the 19th century, when the term “dop” was used to describe a South African drink which was an extract of cola nuts to which was added xanthines (found in caffeine) and alcohol. The drink was intended to improve endurance and the term “doping” was derived from it.

    In the Ancient Olympics, trainers gave athletes various concoctions that they felt would improve their performance. The first physician to be considered a specialist in sports medicine was Galen, who prescribed as follows: “The rear hooves of an Abyssinian ass, ground up, boiled in oil, and flavored with rose hips and rose petals, was the prescription favored to improve performance.”

    In the late 1800s, trainers often gave European cyclists strychnine mixed with caffeine and alcohol. A similar potion, strychnine with brandy and egg white was given to American marathoner, Thomas Hicks, when he was near collapse at the end of the 1904 Olympic marathon in St. Louis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post
    This thread really wasn't supposed to be another thread about 'everyone was on the juice back then'.

    More about:

    a) how the swimming president will progress his statement about 'righting the wrongs' and if it has any ramifications for athletics
    b) the GDR athletes being part of institutionalised doping as proven by official state records.
    I’m not sure how you “right the wrongs” that were so pervasive. It didn’t start in the 90s, the 80s, the 70s, or even the 60s.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vault-emort
    replied
    This thread really wasn't supposed to be another thread about 'everyone was on the juice back then'.

    More about:

    a) how the swimming president will progress his statement about 'righting the wrongs' and if it has any ramifications for athletics
    b) the GDR athletes being part of institutionalised doping as proven by official state records.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wiederganger
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave View Post
    Per this NY Times article, PEDs have been part of the game since at least the 1950s.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/17/a...s-not-how.html
    Which is why, when people always say X American sprinter from back in the day would run 9.7 in todays spikes and tracks, blah blah blah, I always say let them also face the same drug testing conditions too...

    Many nations and athletes were clearly on drugs, which is why, for example, so many US and UK female sprint and throws records from the 80s are either still standing or only beaten relatively recently.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave
    replied
    Per this NY Times article, PEDs have been part of the game since at least the 1950s.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1971/10/17/a...s-not-how.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Davidokun
    replied
    Originally posted by noone View Post
    When was it that Raelene Boyle was dq’ed for a supposed false start in the 200? I was there, so most likely 1976 OG or 1978 Commonwealth Games.
    1976 OG:

    Highlight of semi I was the disqualification on false starts of a furious Raelene Boyle, who claimed she was done in by a balky detection device and an unkind starter.

    Leave a comment:


  • noone
    replied
    When was it that Raelene Boyle was dq’ed for a supposed false start in the 200? I was there, so most likely 1976 OG or 1978 Commonwealth Games.

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Originally posted by Vault-emort View Post

    Yes, but there are DDR government records showing their athletes were taking PEDs during this time.
    That's only because they lost the war...so all the dirty laundry got exposed. Rather naive to think the DDR were the only ones.

    Anyways this argument is nothing new....Shorter has argued the same for ages.
    Last edited by Conor Dary; 10-18-2021, 10:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vault-emort
    replied
    Originally posted by Conor Dary View Post
    The East German system was bad but hardly the only ones doing PED stuff... there was zero out of competition testing until the early 90s.
    Yes, but there are DDR government records showing their athletes were taking PEDs during this time.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X