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Looking for a California women's javelin thrower

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  • Looking for a California women's javelin thrower

    Some might remember that last summer I had compiled a list of alltime bests of "CIF alumni" - athletes who had competed for California high schools. And a seriously impressive set of records it was.

    The one really weak link in the list was the women's javelin - in part because of the change of implement in 1999, as well as because the state doesn't have the event. This eliminated both Kate the Great (who hadn't competed for her school anyway) and Nicole Carroll, whose 205+ came near the end of the era of the old implement.

    So if anyone is aware of a 55-meter javelin thrower (post-1999) who competed for (or even attended) a California high school, I'd be most interested. The best mark I know of is Carroll's own mark of around 54 meters at the beginning of the new implement.
    Last edited by cigar95; 11-17-2021, 04:58 AM.

  • #2
    Was Erica Wheeler a CIF alum?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tandfman View Post
      Was Erica Wheeler a CIF alum?
      Washington state

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      • #4
        Originally posted by gm View Post

        Washington state
        yup - Stanford, but non-California prep

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        • #5
          Good luck finding one. California is only one of many states that do not have the high school javelin (male or female). It's too bad because we could have some very good world-class (Olympic medalists) throwers if only more states would commit to adding the javelin throw in all high schools. I realize that safety is an extremely important part of this, however with proper rules and restrictions, it can be held safely.

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          • #6
            We had a pretty good thrower on the men's side, and as I noted, some good women's marks with the old implement. And we do have good hammer marks.
            (My exclusion of Kate the Great is purely a man-made restriction for this particular record list, but even Carroll's mark was quite good by US standards.)
            The thing working in my favor is that I only need to find *one*.

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            • #7
              We have a winner, Michelle Thompson, from El Cajon Valley High School, with a throw of 177-10 (54.21) in 2009, while a junior at U. Georgia. Thompson was a 126-1 discus thrower as a high school senior in 2005, then went to Cuyamaca Community College in El Cajon for two years where she began throwing the javelin, winning the state JC title in 2007 at 158-9 (48.39).
              Carroll's legal best is 177-7 (54.13), for 75th on the U.S. all-time list, two spots and 8 centimeters behind Thompson.

              DoubleRBar's comment about California not throwing the javelin is on the mark. Here is the distribution of the 75 throwers on the U.S. ATL among the 24 states in which the athletes attended high school:

              1: Florida, Iowa, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio
              2: Alabama, Arizona, California, Rhode Island
              3: Louisiana, North Dakota, Texas
              4: Missouri, Nebraska
              7: Kansas, Oregon
              8: Washington
              17: Pennsylvania

              The search was a little more circuitous than I imagined it would be. Mirko Jalava lists Nicole Carroll's current javelin best as 182-6 (55.62) from the 1997 Athens World Championship qualifying round. While the marks in that competition were made with the "new" javelin, the implements used in Athens had the rough tail modification, which was subsequently banned. The current rules took effect in 1999, May 1 in most sources, although April is also given. This eliminates Ann Crouse, whose qualifying marks occurred before May 1, 1999.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by dj View Post
                We have a winner, Michelle Thompson, from El Cajon Valley High School, with a throw of 177-10 (54.21) in 2009, while a junior at U. Georgia. Thompson was a 126-1 discus thrower as a high school senior in 2005, then went to Cuyamaca Community College in El Cajon for two years where she began throwing the javelin, winning the state JC title in 2007 at 158-9 (48.39).
                Carroll's legal best is 177-7 (54.13), for 75th on the U.S. all-time list, two spots and 8 centimeters behind Thompson.

                DoubleRBar's comment about California not throwing the javelin is on the mark. Here is the distribution of the 75 throwers on the U.S. ATL among the 24 states in which the athletes attended high school:

                1: Florida, Iowa, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio
                2: Alabama, Arizona, California, Rhode Island
                3: Louisiana, North Dakota, Texas
                4: Missouri, Nebraska
                7: Kansas, Oregon
                8: Washington
                17: Pennsylvania

                The search was a little more circuitous than I imagined it would be. Mirko Jalava lists Nicole Carroll's current javelin best as 182-6 (55.62) from the 1997 Athens World Championship qualifying round. While the marks in that competition were made with the "new" javelin, the implements used in Athens had the rough tail modification, which was subsequently banned. The current rules took effect in 1999, May 1 in most sources, although April is also given. This eliminates Ann Crouse, whose qualifying marks occurred before May 1, 1999.
                Great minds think alike...

                https://forum.trackandfieldnews.com/...99#post1706399

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                • #9
                  my reading of the WR Progessions book is that the rough-tail jav was banned at the Tokyo '91 Congress.

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                  • #10
                    Fantastic, Dave. Some entry on my record list involved me looking up someone from Valley and Cuyamaca. Could I have seen Thompson and somehow dismissed her prematurely? They've produced a few quality athletes over the years - Mark Malone comes to mind, and I think maybe Matt Farmer was a Brave as well.

                    There are a couple non-Americans on my record list - would your search methodology have found such?

                    I think I'll add both of the Carroll marks to the list as well in a footnote section.
                    Mike Kennedy's all-time HS list has only one Californian, but near as I can tell her PR remained the mark she achieved as a HS soph.

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                    • #11
                      I see Thompson appeared in my original thread last summer, and we confirmed she competed in CIF competition. If I remember, now I even found her name in the State meet program. I guess I just failed to update the spreadsheet at the time.

                      Thanks, guys!

                      This is definitely the weakest of the records of the list. I was never able to find a sub-43 in the women's 4x1, but other than that I think every record on the list is "world class". We even had some very good marks in the 2000 meters, which I'm sure will make Alan Sigmon happy.

                      Now that I'm satisfied I have all the marks I need, just need to finish filling in all the other columns of the spreadsheet. (Though I have a record update for the CIF that's overdue, so that one comes first . . . .)
                      Last edited by cigar95; 11-17-2021, 08:38 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gh View Post
                        my reading of the WR Progessions book is that the rough-tail jav was banned at the Tokyo '91 Congress.
                        Agreed, after the "new" men's javelin had been tinkered with. But when the women's change was announced for full use beginning April '99, there were javelins used periodically for several previous years that conformed to various aspects of the new requirements, but apparently not all. Re Carroll's mark at '97 WCh, from Wikipedia: "All results were made with a rough surfaced javelin (old design)." Adding the wiki note to Jalava's inclusion of '97 WCh marks as "new javelin" creates the confusion.

                        As for Ann Crouse, she should be added to the list, at least at 184-4 (56.20) in 2000 and adding Connecticut to the list of states represented. Alternatively, one could decide to list her 1999 mark of 188-3 (57.38) on 27 March 1999, which occurs before the date at which only new javelins were to be used.

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