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Hart and Robinson vs Borzov 1972

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  • Hart and Robinson vs Borzov 1972

    I know I know. been done before so here's the deal.

    Guy on another forum is positive Hart/Robinson beat Borzov, do think it's more a USA beats USSR thing but he won't listen to me. So, how about a little back up, I already bragged on you guys so a little help here, yep will be sharing your input.

    I do see Hart beating Taylor and pushing Borzov to a faster time but he's not beating him. Do think Borzov could have ran a faster 100m than he did.
    Last edited by Alcyallen; 12-31-2021, 11:29 PM.

  • #2
    He beat all the US athletes in the next Olympic 100m too, even though some had probably written off his medal chances after the semis.

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    • #3
      I remember at the time a lot of discussion as to who ran the better anchor leg in the 4x100 final.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post
        Guy on another forum is positive Hart/Robinson beat Borzov, do think it's more a USA beats USSR thing
        Borzov was indeed a faster sprinter at that time. The stopwatch (timer) didn't lie and his victories were not flukes. The historical record is clear.
        If he wants to deny that, he can join the anti-vaxxers and stop-the-stealers in their fantasy land of anti-truth.

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        • #5
          Bottom line is that we will never know what would have happened. Everything else is just a guess.

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          • #6
            Enough already

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Atticus View Post
              Borzov was indeed a faster sprinter at that time. The stopwatch (timer) didn't lie and his victories were not flukes. The historical record is clear.
              If he wants to deny that, he can join the anti-vaxxers and stop-the-stealers in their fantasy land of anti-truth.
              Like this one, thank you.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by noone View Post
                Enough already
                Hey, don't do that, ok? If this topic isn't for you then pass it by, ok?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DoubleRBar View Post
                  Bottom line is that we will never know what would have happened. Everything else is just a guess.
                  Borzov had been one of the top sprinters in the world since 1969, that can't be said about Hart/Robinson, and it's a....just a guess?

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                  • #10
                    As DoubleRBar said its all a guess. I think Borzov would have won even if Hart/Robinson were there, but I think Hart would have been close.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bambam1729 View Post
                      As DoubleRBar said its all a guess. I think Borzov would have won even if Hart/Robinson were there, but I think Hart would have been close.
                      Borzov was the top ranked 100m sprinter in the world in 1971, neither Hart or Robinson ranked. Borzov was considered to be the best sprinter in the world that was never a thought when it came to Hart/Robinson, but.......a guess?

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                      • #12
                        Nobody was rushin' past Borzov in Munich, whether they showed up or not. Simply too much better than anyone else at the time.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 1.609 View Post
                          Nobody was rushin' past Borzov in Munich, whether they showed up or not. Simply too much better than anyone else at the time.
                          Totally agree!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post
                            I know I know. been done before so here's the deal.

                            Guy on another forum is positive Hart/Robinson beat Borzov, do think it's more a USA beats USSR thing but he won't listen to me. So, how about a little back up, I already bragged on you guys so a little help here, yep will be sharing your input.

                            I do see Hart beating Taylor and pushing Borzov to a faster time but he's not beating him. Do think Borzov could have ran a faster 100m than he did.
                            Yep, its been discussed to death.

                            I am not sure Hart beats Taylor, let alone Borzov.

                            Hart won only two 100m/y events in 1972, including the Olympic Trials, where he nudged ahead of Robinson and Taylor having almost missed out on the final entirely finishing fourth in his semi-final.

                            Here is his entire season (sorry for the bad formatting):

                            10.1m 2 29-Apr-72 Walnut (West Coast Relays)
                            10.0m 1h2 13-May-72 Fresno
                            10.1m 3 13-May-72 Fresno
                            10.6m 2 20-May-72 Bakersfield
                            10.2m 3 27-May-72 Modesto (windy)
                            9.4ym 1 10-Jun-72 Berkeley
                            10.1m 2q1 30-Jun-72 Eugene (3.6 m/s windy)
                            9.9m 4s1 01-Jul-72 Eugene (4.7 m/s windy)
                            9.9m 1 01-Jul-72 Eugene (0.9 m/s wind)
                            10.2m 2r3 11-Aug-72 Viareggio
                            10.47 1h11 31-Aug-72 Munich

                            Hart did not run in the AAU or NCAA. I think the most we can say is that Hart was a very inconsistent runner. Taylor, on the other hand, won his pre-Olympic races (beating Crawford in Oslo and Robinson in Viareggio) while Hart lost to Crawford. Taylor looked to be the form US sprinter going into the Olympics. If Hart ran his best in the Olympic Final then he might have beaten Taylor but I strongly doubt he gets to Borzov. Robinson probably would not have threatened the medals. There is a good chance that a fully fit Hasely Crawford might have taken the bronze and perhaps the silver. In 1976 Harvey Glance had a much more impressive record going into the Olympics than Hart yet finished only fourth. Post 1968 US sprinting just wasn't that strong (unlucky Steve Williams aside).

                            Just to be a bit controversial, I think there is a good chance that the 9.9 in the Olympic trials final was really wind-aided. I am not saying that there was a malfunction or deliberate deceit, just that the error margin on the gauge is enormous. Every race in the 100m at the trials was windy other than the final, and everyone in the final (not just Hart) ran abnormally fast. A wind speed of somewhere between 2.5 and 3.0 m/s explains the times pretty well (this is discussed in excruciating detail in my book). A lot of the expectation on Hart was due to this 9.9, as well as the subsequent commentary on if he could have beaten Borzov.

                            I've watched the final leg of the 4x100 relay too many times to count, and concluded that its just too difficult to determine the relative abilities of Hart and Borzov. Hart has a huge lead and Borzov seems to be looking around to see if the silver medal is safe. Borzov was a better starter than Hart, which is obviously nullified in a relay leg.
                            Last edited by JC100; 01-01-2022, 11:59 AM.
                            100m - A New Look at the World's Greatest Race

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Alcyallen View Post

                              Hey, don't do that, ok? If this topic isn't for you then pass it by, ok?
                              There are 4 kinds of people :
                              1. Those that think Hart would have won
                              2. Those that think Borzov would have won
                              3. Those who think it's impossible to know
                              4. Those who think there is no point in debating

                              I am type 4.

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