AUTO TIMES...

[richh]

In the heats of the 1972 steeplechase - Paivarinta h3 - 8:28.95, Biwott h4 - 8:23.73. Curiously the times are not known for h1 - Kantanen 8:24.8 or h2 Jipcho 8:31.6

[Atticus]

I believe so. I know Bob Sparks looked quite hard for them for many years and never found them and with Bob deceased now for probably 10 years, not sure who might know of any better sources.

Silly boy - they are on the back of the Smithsonian's 'Declaration of Independence'.

[bambam1729]

Are the unknowns from 1960 and 1964 lost forever?

I believe so. I know Bob Sparks looked quite hard for them for many years and never found them and with Bob deceased now for probably 10 years, not sure who might know of any better sources.

[AFTERBURNER]

DJ, I think 1972 was the first Olympics where auto times were official. 1968 Mexico official report and official results only list marks in 1/10ths.

We have auto times due to Bob Sparks going back to 1952 Olympics - almost complete, although 1964 Tokyo is missing several events. In 1948 there are no "auto times" per se, but Bob's notes - published in ATFS Newsletters back in the 1980s, show the winning hand time, followed by an "auto time gap" - e.g., 1 = 10.4, 2 = +0.23, etc. 1960 is also missing a few events but not as much as 1964.

There are also a few auto times available for 1932 and 1936 - we have those. I have full sets of the Olympic auto times (from Sparks) if anyone wants them ([email protected]).

There was also "auto timing" (probably semi-automatic) in 1912 at Stockholm, but it was only ever used apparently in a heat of the 1,500 metres, and I've never seen any times for that.

Are the unknowns from 1960 and 1964 lost forever?

[bambam1729]

The 1972 Games were the second to use the auto times as official. But the IAAF rules still mandated timing to the fifth of a second for distances longer than one mile.

The use of an “a” after the time for the OG heats indicates that the auto time was rounded to a fifth of a second. Note that all the hat time tenths are even numbers.

We are just lucky that many newspapers—and in some instances meet organizers and other rules bodies (notably the NCAA)—did not know or chose to ignore the rules and published x.xx times.

DJ, I think 1972 was the first Olympics where auto times were official. 1968 Mexico official report and official results only list marks in 1/10ths.

We have auto times due to Bob Sparks going back to 1952 Olympics - almost complete, although 1964 Tokyo is missing several events. In 1948 there are no "auto times" per se, but Bob's notes - published in ATFS Newsletters back in the 1980s, show the winning hand time, followed by an "auto time gap" - e.g., 1 = 10.4, 2 = +0.23, etc. 1960 is also missing a few events but not as much as 1964.

There are also a few auto times available for 1932 and 1936 - we have those. I have full sets of the Olympic auto times (from Sparks) if anyone wants them ([email protected]).

There was also "auto timing" (probably semi-automatic) in 1912 at Stockholm, but it was only ever used apparently in a heat of the 1,500 metres, and I've never seen any times for that.

[AFTERBURNER]

Are they kept secret? I don't think so.

Some 'official' auto times changed over the years due to further investigation. Even into the 70s, officials and statisticians were still learning about the newer technology.

The IAAF (and national orgs) were yet to come to terms with it too.

Bob Sparks had a different opinion about the 1974 and 1978 Euros in Rome and Prague:

Very little data has been obtained for the 1974 & 1978 Championships, as
a result of the secretive policy adopted by officials of the European AA,
requests for access being treated as if asking for the keys to Fort Knox.

[Vault-emort]

WHY keep such things secret ???

Are they kept secret? I don't think so.

Some 'official' auto times changed over the years due to further investigation. Even into the 70s, officials and statisticians were still learning about the newer technology.

The IAAF (and national orgs) were yet to come to terms with it too.

[dj]

Also, if memory serves correctly, a distance race time of 13:54.4a would mean that the true auto was in the range of 13:54.25-13:54.44.

In other words, rounded up and down but if it turns to an odd tenth round again to the longer even tenth.

[dj]

The 1972 Games were the second to use the auto times as official. But the IAAF rules still mandated timing to the fifth of a second for distances longer than one mile.

The use of an “a” after the time for the OG heats indicates that the auto time was rounded to a fifth of a second. Note that all the hat time tenths are even numbers.

We are just lucky that many newspapers—and in some instances meet organizers and other rules bodies (notably the NCAA)—did not know or chose to ignore the rules and published x.xx times.

[AFTERBURNER]

The OG heat times are all manual on that list.

Hmm. no quite...the last digit has an "a" next to it suggesting that it was auto timed but not published for some reason.

The same thing happened with the 1969, Euros in Athens, the 1974 Euros in Rome and the 1978 Euros in Prague.

WHY keep such things secret ???

[gm]

This site suggest otherwise: https://digilander.libero.it/Mennea/.../1972/5000.htm

The OG heat times are all manual on that list.

[AFTERBURNER]

10K is here - https://www.olympedia.org/results/61108

No auto times for heats of 5K or steeple that we've ever seen. The official report and official results have only hand times to the 1/10th. The auto times we have all came from work by Bob Sparks.

This site suggest otherwise: https://digilander.libero.it/Mennea/.../1972/5000.htm

[bambam1729]

10K is here - https://www.olympedia.org/results/61108

No auto times for heats of 5K or steeple that we've ever seen. The official report and official results have only hand times to the 1/10th. The auto times we have all came from work by Bob Sparks.

[AFTERBURNER]

at the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich.

Does anyone has the "auto times" for the qualification round for the following events:

3000mSt, 5000m and 10.000m. Or where they ever published?

Many thanks in advance!!