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  • #16
    Re: Greatest Milers

    <We know who # 1 is .>

    Puddys - if you are still out there. Who is #1 in your book?

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    • #17
      Re: Greatest Milers

      EL G is the greatest

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      • #18
        Re: Greatest Milers

        >EL G is the greatest

        Right now. But not the greatest ever. Morceli at his peak would have eaten El G for lunch. Better racer, faster finisher. El G's 5k at the world's not withstanding, he needs to run several more 'races' to show that he can really race like some of the top stars from the past who showed they could race. Take Walker for example. Came out of nowhere to run a PR almost catching Bayi. Thrashes Bayi head to head that summer in another fast time. Would always come up with a good race against the best. Someone said his Olympic win wasn't the greatest or something to that effect earlier. He won. Coe, great racer and runner. Morceli, won BIG races and could run for records. Ovett, good racer. El G, good runner behind rabbits. Not that stellar without them. Even at the 1500 at the WC's, he pulled the same move he does on the GP circuit. He did win, but the kids are getting closer. How would he have done with guys pressing him as in Sydney? I hope he wins and stakes his claim in Athens, but if he doesn't ....

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        • #19
          Re: Greatest Milers

          < Take Walker for example. Came out of nowhere to run a PR almost catching Bayi. Thrashes Bayi head to head that summer in another fast time. Would always come up with a good race against the best. Someone said his Olympic win wasn't the greatest or something to that effect earlier. He won.>

          Remind me about thrashing Bayi head to head that summer in another fast time. was that in 1974 and was that before or after Bayi's problems with malaria. Walker's performance at the 1977 World Cup left a great deal to be desired - "thrashed" by an up and coming Ovett. Just winning an Oly gold does not bring one up on an all-time great list. What about Ericsson (1948), Barthel from 1952, Delaney 1956. Who remembers the 1988 Oly champ? Of the three Kiwis who have been Oly 1500 m champs, I do not think Walker was superior to Snell (1964) or Lovelock (1936).

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          • #20
            Re: Greatest Milers

            Bayi had the malaria trouble well after his summer thrashing by Walker. Bayi's problem that summer was guys were now ready for what he was going to do. He also got hurt in a later race, trying to change his tactics after he found Walker able to catch him.

            Walker was a great racer. No shame in getting whipped by Ovett, although Ovett had raced much less overall that summer than Walker. Snell was a better 800 man than Walker, but he could never have hung with Walker over a fast mile. Snell looked fast until Ryun came along running fast finishes in fast races. Lovelock, different era completely, hard to compare. But Walker's won loss record in real races during his peak speaks for itself. El G's career has seen him run with rabbits in almost every race. Not so with the other greats.

            BTW, was Lovelock killed by accident, or was it a suicide?

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            • #21
              Re: Greatest Milers

              Why isnt Emmon Goglan not mentioned ? Was he known for indoor only ?

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              • #22
                Re: Greatest Milers

                "But Walker's won loss record in real races during his peak speaks for itself. "

                You're forgetting that Walker ran with rabbits in most (all?) of his European races.

                Beyond that, his competitive record in championship races is not good, at least compared to other all-time greats:
                2)CommG 74 (to Bayi), 1)OlyG 76, dnf)WCup 77 (stepped off the track when Ovett kicked past), 2)WCup 81 (Ovett), 2)CommG 82 (Cram), 9)WChamps 83 (Cram, Scott, Aouita, Ovett [not a bad first four!], Abascal, Deleze, Busse, Zdravkovic).

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                • #23
                  Re: Greatest Milers

                  BTW, was Lovelock killed by accident, or was
                  >it a suicide?

                  I believe he was in a car crash a few years after the Olympics that damaged his sense of balance. He died when he fell onto subway tracks in NY.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Greatest Milers

                    I have always been curious about the comparative last 400 ability of historys top milers. Assuming these guys had raced in the same era with rabbits absent the race would be tactical. What would seperate them would be strength of kick. Does anybody have any comparative stats. Which one of these guys has recorded the fastest last 400m during a race.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Greatest Milers

                      <I have always been curious about the comparative last 400 ability of historys top milers. Assuming these guys had raced in the same era with rabbits absent the race would be tactical. What would seperate them would be strength of kick. Does anybody have any comparative stats. Which one of these guys has recorded the fastest last 400m during a race. >

                      I believe you are wrong about how a mythical all-time greats race would be run. Herb Elliott did not need rabbits and often led from 800 m out - e.g. Goteborg 1958, Rome 1960. Gunder Hagg led almost all the way in most of his important races during 1942-1944. And as for Walter George, most of his big races were with two runners - who was the rabbit?

                      If we spot the person with the greatest finishing speed - Ryun 1967, Morceli or Ovett at their peaks? - why would the others sit around and wait to be outkicked in the last 100 m or so?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Greatest Milers

                        On that day of the Olympic 1500 Final in 1984, you could have whoever you wanted from whatever time you wanted but NOBODY would have beaten Seb Coe that day, period. Forget his time/splits, etc, and look at the effortless nature in which he ran it. He had another two gears in reserve easy.

                        If I would have to pick any runner on any given day to race in the "All Time Mile Great" race, it would have to be Seb Coe on that day.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Greatest Milers

                          Herb Elliot es el mejor, sin duda!

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                          • #28
                            Re: Greatest Milers

                            There are many different criteria that people use (wr, competition, etc.) in ranking people in events. However, for me personally (only an opinion), it is hard to compare times in the 800/1500 over the years because of differences in the tracks (the same is true for any event). So, for me, it comes down to one thing: Winning the race whichever it happens to be with a little more emphasis on WC and Olympics. That being said, how can Herb Elliot, Peter Snell, and Coe not be in everyone's top five. As my previous poster noted, Coe absolutely dominated the 84 1500. And even if you prefer to look at times, all 3 of these men set numerous wr's albeit Snell probably no to the extent of the other two. Ask yourself this. If you had to pick someone to win you a 1500 (against people from his own era), who would you take? Also, in my list of top 1500's, I would add Ryun, Walker, Keino, El G and Morcelli. Just my opinion.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Greatest Milers

                              >Walker's performance at
                              >the 1977 World Cup left a great deal to be
                              >desired - "thrashed" by an up and coming Ovett.

                              I will alays vote for Elliot...short career, but who can argue with perfection?

                              But I'm also a Walker fan--anytime, anywhere, any place. A competitive animal. Got a little stupid with that back and forth Bayi thing once the money guys started trying to control the venue.
                              The great thing about Walker was "no excuses." After getting physically and mentally wiped out by Ovett's kick at Dusseldorf, Walker continually said he had no reason for quitting the race, no excuses, that he had just quit and he didn't know why and that it was a bad mistake he regretted.
                              Love that personal responsibility!

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                              • #30
                                Re: Greatest Milers

                                ref:84 OG 1500
                                Coe dominated, but remember Ovett came out of the hospital to race. Might have been a different result with a healthy Ovett. I see Ovett as a better racer over the course of their careers.

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