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Who would have won in 1984?

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  • #16
    Re: Who would have won in 1984 (women)?

    >'Tis a poor crafsman who blames his tools.

    Surely you mean "craftsman"....?

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Who would have won in 1984 (women)?

      >100m: Ashford USA
      >200m: Koch USA
      >400m: Koch GDR
      >800m: Kratochvilova URS
      >1500m: Podkopayeva URS
      >3,000m: Kazankina URS
      >100mH: Kalek POL
      >400mH: Khromova URS
      >4x100: USA
      >4X400: URS
      >Marathon: Benoit USA
      >High Jump: Andonova BUL
      >Long Jump: Daute-Drechsler GDR
      >Shot Put: Lisovskaya USR
      >Discus: Sihlava TCH
      >Javelin: Felke GDR
      >Heptathlon: Sabine John GDR

      I agree with most of these, but there are a few exceptions:
      - I believe Kratochvilova was injured at the time. In any case, she missed the Friendship Games (even though the women's T&F competition took place in Prague)
      - I'd go for GDR in both relays. At 4x4, they actually set a WR earlier in 1984, so I think they'd have no problem beating the Soviets. With 4x1, it's less obvious, but the East Germans did run 41.67 just 3 weeks before the Olympic final and with their ability to peak, they would have most probably gone quite a bit faster (the WR could have gone)

      ...which would leave Ashford and Benoit as the only winners from non-boycotting countries. Actually, even Ashford could have conceivably gotten beaten by Gohr...
      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Who would have won in 1984 (women)?

        I agree with most of these, but there
        >are a few exceptions:
        - I believe Kratochvilova
        >was injured at the time. In any case, she missed
        >the Friendship Games (even though the women's T&F
        >competition took place in Prague)
        - I'd go for
        >GDR in both relays. At 4x4, they actually set a
        >WR earlier in 1984, so I think they'd have no
        >problem beating the Soviets. With 4x1, it's less
        >obvious, but the East Germans did run 41.67 just
        >3 weeks before the Olympic final and with their
        >ability to peak, they would have most probably
        >gone quite a bit faster (the WR could have
        >gone)

        ...which would leave Ashford and Benoit
        >as the only winners from non-boycotting
        >countries. Actually, even Ashford could have
        >conceivably gotten beaten by Gohr...



        I didn't know about Krato's injury in 1984. I'll therefore have to go with Olizarenko.
        Now you mention it, GDR would have most probably won the 4x4, with the possibility of a WR. I'm not so convinced about them winning the 4x1, though. USA were clear winners and had no-one to challenge them. If they had a GDR team there to push them all the way (and given the home crowd support), USA could have most probably gone quicker in the 4x1.

        I also doubt that Ashford could have been beaten by Gohr. Only twice has Gohr ran sub-11 in a major champs final. Seeing as Ashford was the only one to go sub-11 in the OG final (where she was also pretty much unchallenged), I doubt Gohr could have taken the gold.

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        • #19
          Re: Who would have won in 1984 (women)?

          >I'm not so convinced about them winning
          >the 4x1, though. USA were clear winners and had
          >no-one to challenge them. If they had a GDR team
          >there to push them all the way (and given the
          >home crowd support), USA could have most probably
          >gone quicker in the 4x1.

          I also doubt that
          >Ashford could have been beaten by Gohr. Only
          >twice has Gohr ran sub-11 in a major champs
          >final. Seeing as Ashford was the only one to go
          >sub-11 in the OG final (where she was also pretty
          >much unchallenged), I doubt Gohr could have taken
          >the gold.

          Re Ashford: I did leave her in 1st place, I just said she COULD have CONCEIVABLY been beaten - it's not the same thing as saying she wouldn't have been the favourite. Just the same, I think Brisco-Hooks would have had a chance against Koch in the 200 (though not the 400), but I still think Koch would have won.

          As for the 4x1 relay, I see your point - the US team did run very well, and it certainly wouldn't have been easy for the East Germans to beat them... but I think the GDR team in 1984 was as good as the one that set the current WR a year later, if not better (Marlies Gohr was just as strong as in 1985, Barbel Wockel was still around, and possibly Marita Koch would have been put on the team). If they could run 41.69 in a domestic race, they could have gone sub-41.50 in the Olympics if pushed.

          In the 800, I'd actually go for Irina Podyalovskaya, who won the Friendship Games and was ranked 2nd in the world that year (behind Kratochvilova).
          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Who would have won in 1984?

            Actually, I was wrong about Kratochvilova missing the Friendship Games. She did compete in the 400, but evidently she wasn't 100%, as she only finished 5th with 49.94 (behind Koch, Kocembova, Bryzgina, and Pinigina). What I see in the all-time lists is that her best results that year came at the end of the season (including a win at 800 in Zurich on August 22nd, 16 days after the Olympic final - she ran her SB of 1:57.68 there). I'm not completely sure about her injury status, but I think she did have some problems of this nature in 1984.
            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Who would have won in 1984?

              Actually, Kratochvílová had back injury, a problem that followed her during her career.
              But in early 1984, when the boycott became official, she was thinking about retirement. She was 33, at her prime, but it was clear then that Los Angeles would be her last Olympics. The loss of form came, the reason is obvious. Evelyn Ashford did the same in 1980, boycott was a shock, she injured herself and did a car trip across the country with her husband...
              That's why i think that she wouldn't have been injured in other condition, and was able to run under 47sec and 1:53 by August 84. The main problem is that Koch was too at her prime in August 84. Unlike in Helsinki'83, where she was short of training, she concentrated in short sprints, as she was sure to be beaten by Kratochvílová at 400m, and Marita didn't like to lose!
              Koch was supposed to run 200-400, while Krato said in Heslinki that she wanted to focus in 1 event in Los Angeles, 800m, but didn't dismiss the possibility of a direct clash with Marita if she comes back to 400.
              All in all, if think Krato would have win the 800m, and Koch the 400: in the end of July, Koch ran 48.26 under awfull conditions, and she thought then that it was worth 47.6-47.7 (a time she ran actually 1 yera later in Canberra).
              Both were unbeatable in their respective events.
              About the 200m, the Western girls nearly all broke their PBs in Los Angeles, and Koch and Wöckel ran respectively 21.71 and 21.85 that year, so i think they would have been faster than that in LA.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                Would Mary Slaney have taken home gold?
                It is argueable that with all the Eastern Block athletes in....Zola Budd would not have made the final!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                  Yeah, but Puica is still in the race and beats Slaney. And maybe Puica doesn't win the race.

                  Remember the OT 1500 when Wysocki beats Mary. Mary wasn't the same athlete we saw in 1983.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                    Point well taken from Dave Johnson
                    Ah...
                    What could have been!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                      <Actually, Kratochvílová had back injury, a problem that followed her during her career.
                      But in early 1984, when the boycott became official, she was thinking about retirement. She was 33, at her prime, but it was clear then that Los Angeles would be her last Olympics. The loss of form came, the reason is obvious. Evelyn Ashford did the same in 1980, boycott was a shock, she injured herself and did a car trip across the country with her husband...
                      That's why i think that she wouldn't have been injured in other condition, and was able to run under 47sec and 1:53 by August 84.>

                      Kratch's fantastic WC double in 1983 remains really underappreciated. (No need for comments about "outside help" - for similar unproved comments could be made about all outstanding performers/performances). Both this and Juantorena's 1976 OG double (same events) involved running in more races than most other "unusual doubles, i.e. no 100/200, 5k/10k. And both were done with the pre-existing schedules for these events, i.e. no changes made to "accomodate" wishes of athletes wishing to attempt doubles.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                        When you read a bio of Evelyn Ashford, it's surprising how seldom she lost to East German runners once she was in her prime. And while it may have been the ony time in her career, I think Brisco's 21.81 would have beaten Koch. Did Koch ever run that time in a major meet? And this would presumably have been after running the 400m.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                          >When you read a bio of Evelyn Ashford, it's
                          >surprising how seldom she lost to East German
                          >runners once she was in her prime. And while it
                          >may have been the ony time in her career, I think
                          >Brisco's 21.81 would have beaten Koch. Did Koch
                          >ever run that time in a major meet?

                          Koch never ran the 200 in a major championship, apart from 1983, when she was not at her best and wasn't prepared to do the one-lapper (she did win, but in a rather unspectacular fashion). By 1984, she was back with a vengeance. She ran 21.71 that year. If you consider that all top women in the LA final set big PBs, it's obvious the conditions there were conducive to fast running. I can't say I'm 100% sure Koch would have won, but there's a very good chance the WR would have gone and VBH would have been left far behind.
                          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Who would have won in 1984 (women)?

                            >It's about time this
                            >message board had an "edit" function!!

                            Agreed!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                              "I think Brisco's 21.81 would have beaten Koch. Did Koch ever run that time in a major meet? And this would presumably have been after running the 400m."

                              Koch never get that opportunity.
                              In Helsinki World Champs, she ran "only", but all the times in short sprints were quite slow men and women, and Koch's hard schedule that week was:
                              August 7: 100m 11.24, 11.25
                              August 8: 100m 11.08, 11.02
                              August 10: 4x100m 42.59, 41.76
                              August 12: 200m 23.03
                              August 13: 200m 22.67
                              August 14: 200m 22.13, 4x400m 48.55r

                              So that 22.13 was her 9th race of the week, not bad considering that she was injured during her training preparation!

                              In an other major meet, 1985 World Cup, Koch ran in the first lane 21.90 with -0.7m/s wind (compared to Brisco ran 21.81 in lane 7 with -0.1m/s.)

                              However, 2 weeks after Los Angeles Games, there was a little race in Zürich, the result was:
                              wind 0.0
                              1. Koch 21.87
                              2. Wöckel 22.10
                              3. Cook 22.25
                              4. Brisco 22.26
                              5. Cheeseborough 22.47
                              6. Griffith 22.68
                              ...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Who would have won in 1984?

                                I'll stick with Brisco-Hooks in the 200. Koch was an obvious 400.

                                This question is better for boxing....

                                Heavyweight: Stevenson (CUB) over Biggs (USA)

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