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400 IH; the top 5 all time

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  • #16
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Originally posted by 6 5.5hjsteve
    the top 2 are easy, plus the next 2 as well:

    1. Edwin Moses
    2. Glenn Davis
    3. Kevin Young
    4. Glenn Hardin

    Anyone disagree? And I can't pick a clear 5th.
    Why stop at 5? Go for 10. Here are mine:

    1. Edwin Moses (U.S.)
    2. Glenn Davis (U.S.)
    3. Kevin Young (U.S.)
    4. Andre Phillips (U.S.)
    5. John Akii-Bua (Uganda)
    6. David Hemery (U.K.)
    7. Glenn Hardin (U.S.)
    8. Harald Schmid (W. Germany)
    9. Charles Moore (U.S.)
    10. Samuel Matete (Zambia)

    And for the women:

    1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
    2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
    3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
    4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
    5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
    6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
    7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
    8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
    9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
    10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*

    *Subject to change. And believe me, I had a hard time judging anyone else with a longer 400H career as more worthy of the number 10 spot than Privalova for her one big year. A symptom of how wide-open this event still is. But if you have a more worthy athlete (Pittman, Halkiá, Pernía, Ambraziené, Ponomaryova, Busch, etc.), now's the time.

    I will say that I'm leaning toward Daimí Pernía (1999 World Champion, 4th in 2000 Olympics) and Margarita Ponomaryova (world record 1984, 3rd/53.48 in 1993 WC behind Gunnell 52.74 WR/SFP 52.79 showdown).

    Comment


    • #17
      1. Moses
      2. Davis
      3. Young
      4. Potgieter His 49.3yds was stronger than Davis's 49.2. He also had 49.7 yds.,
      Career ending injury before the Rome Games where he would have
      had a great chance against Davis. Too bad he never met Davis in
      '58. (Davis's best year)
      5. Hardin


      Greatest talent over this distance - Glenn Davis. Two months after running the distance for the first time he runs 49.5 and beats the w-rec by almost a second.

      Comment


      • #18
        I go with

        Moses
        Davis
        Young
        Hardin
        Taylor

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

          Originally posted by CookyMonzta
          Originally posted by 6 5.5hjsteve
          And for the women:

          1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
          2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
          3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
          4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
          5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
          6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
          7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
          8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
          9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
          10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*
          No Busch???!!! :shock:
          "If Gaby worked as hard with the weights as she did with her tongue she'd have a different concept of beauty. To get performances like mine, she'd have to sacrifice some of her good looks. The women of the west dont work as hard as we do" JK

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

            I think Busch was a bit of a pioneer for the event, and though she didnt win lots of medals she did still win world gold and set a WR. I would rate her over Privialova.
            I also think Pechonkina needs to be in there. Medals in 3 world champs, including a gold, plus an exceptional WR. How can Privialova be ranked over her? I think Ledovskaya should be ranked higher too, for the 4 yrs from 88 to 91 she was essentially number 1, and in 92 she just missed bronze with the same time as Vickers.
            "If Gaby worked as hard with the weights as she did with her tongue she'd have a different concept of beauty. To get performances like mine, she'd have to sacrifice some of her good looks. The women of the west dont work as hard as we do" JK

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Per Andersen
              . Potgieter His 49.3yds was stronger than Davis's 49.2.
              With Potgieter's run coming at 1292m of altitude and Davis's at 115m, I'd have to say the Davis run was the stronger of the two.

              Comment


              • #22
                Potgieter's 49.3yA is also aided by having been run on a 550y track, hence only one turn.

                Comment


                • #23
                  As once related in T&Fn, didn't Josh Culbreath, upon returning from racing Potgieter in South Africa, in '57 or '58, tell Davis that Potgieter was the greatest? Any list has to have Moses (who was boycotted out of '80), Davis (who ended his career for a fling at pro football), and Potgieter (who car crashed out of '60). Leave the arguments for the last 2 names on the list!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KDFINE
                    As once related in T&Fn, didn't Josh Culbreath, upon returning from racing Potgieter in South Africa, in '57 or '58, tell Davis that Potgieter was the greatest? Any list has to have Moses (who was boycotted out of '80), Davis (who ended his career for a fling at pro football), and Potgieter (who car crashed out of '60). Leave the arguments for the last 2 names on the list!
                    Probably true, but this would have occurred before Davis's great 1958 season and his second OG gold in 1960.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      This is a great thread. One of my favorites ever.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

                        [quote=Andrea_T]
                        Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                        Originally posted by "6 5.5hjsteve":w8cp9uhv
                        And for the women:

                        1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
                        2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
                        3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
                        4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
                        5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
                        6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
                        7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
                        8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
                        9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
                        10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*
                        No Busch???!!! :shock:
                        [/quote:w8cp9uhv]

                        Not only should Sabine be in the top 10, she should probably be in the Top 5 (Maybe even 3). Nezha should be way higher as well.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dj
                          Potgieter's 49.3yA is also aided by having been run on a 550y track, hence only one turn.
                          Well, you guys shot down Potgieter's 49.3. I should have remembered about the altitude. I certainly did not know about the one turn track.

                          But still, he ran 49.7y at Cardiff in '58. He had a great undefeated run in '59 and early '60 before the injury. So based on my belief that Davis was better in '58 than in '60 I think Potgieter could have made it very interesting in Rome.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Showing that a statistician can prove anything with numbers, here are the pertinent figures for Glenn Hardin in 1934 and Glenn Davis in 1958 and the comparisions to the WR or 2nd-best performer in history at that time.

                            Hardin: 46.8 440y (0.4 short of Ben Eastman's 46.4y WR), 50.6 400H WR (#2 performer all-time was Bob Tisdall at 51.7).

                            Davis: 45.7 440y (0.2 short of Lou Jones's 45.2 400m WR), 49.2 400H WR (#2 performer a-t was Potgieter at 49.7y).

                            Hardin is 0.4 short in the 400, 1.1 ahead in the 400H, a net of 0.7 ahead.

                            Davis is 0.2 short in the 400, 0.2 ahead in the 400H, a net of 0.0.

                            Numbers advantage to Hardin, and no one else in history would be close to either of them.

                            On the other hand, I certainly believe Davis to be the greater hurdler of the two, for many of the reasons GH pointed out.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              well after a bit of research I come up with

                              1) Edwin Moses
                              2) Glenn Hardin
                              3) Glenn Davis
                              4) John Aki Bua
                              5) Harald Schmid
                              ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Responding to DJ's post re Hardin and G Davis being head/shoulders above all others in 400/400IH -

                                What were Edwin Moses's and Kevin Young's PRs in the open 400?

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