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400 IH; the top 5 all time

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  • KDFINE
    replied
    As once related in T&Fn, didn't Josh Culbreath, upon returning from racing Potgieter in South Africa, in '57 or '58, tell Davis that Potgieter was the greatest? Any list has to have Moses (who was boycotted out of '80), Davis (who ended his career for a fling at pro football), and Potgieter (who car crashed out of '60). Leave the arguments for the last 2 names on the list!

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  • dj
    replied
    Potgieter's 49.3yA is also aided by having been run on a 550y track, hence only one turn.

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  • gh
    replied
    Originally posted by Per Andersen
    . Potgieter His 49.3yds was stronger than Davis's 49.2.
    With Potgieter's run coming at 1292m of altitude and Davis's at 115m, I'd have to say the Davis run was the stronger of the two.

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  • Andrea_T
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    I think Busch was a bit of a pioneer for the event, and though she didnt win lots of medals she did still win world gold and set a WR. I would rate her over Privialova.
    I also think Pechonkina needs to be in there. Medals in 3 world champs, including a gold, plus an exceptional WR. How can Privialova be ranked over her? I think Ledovskaya should be ranked higher too, for the 4 yrs from 88 to 91 she was essentially number 1, and in 92 she just missed bronze with the same time as Vickers.

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  • Andrea_T
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Originally posted by CookyMonzta
    Originally posted by 6 5.5hjsteve
    And for the women:

    1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
    2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
    3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
    4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
    5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
    6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
    7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
    8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
    9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
    10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*
    No Busch???!!! :shock:

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  • ajp
    replied
    I go with

    Moses
    Davis
    Young
    Hardin
    Taylor

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  • Per Andersen
    replied
    1. Moses
    2. Davis
    3. Young
    4. Potgieter His 49.3yds was stronger than Davis's 49.2. He also had 49.7 yds.,
    Career ending injury before the Rome Games where he would have
    had a great chance against Davis. Too bad he never met Davis in
    '58. (Davis's best year)
    5. Hardin


    Greatest talent over this distance - Glenn Davis. Two months after running the distance for the first time he runs 49.5 and beats the w-rec by almost a second.

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  • CookyMonzta
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Originally posted by 6 5.5hjsteve
    the top 2 are easy, plus the next 2 as well:

    1. Edwin Moses
    2. Glenn Davis
    3. Kevin Young
    4. Glenn Hardin

    Anyone disagree? And I can't pick a clear 5th.
    Why stop at 5? Go for 10. Here are mine:

    1. Edwin Moses (U.S.)
    2. Glenn Davis (U.S.)
    3. Kevin Young (U.S.)
    4. Andre Phillips (U.S.)
    5. John Akii-Bua (Uganda)
    6. David Hemery (U.K.)
    7. Glenn Hardin (U.S.)
    8. Harald Schmid (W. Germany)
    9. Charles Moore (U.S.)
    10. Samuel Matete (Zambia)

    And for the women:

    1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
    2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
    3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
    4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
    5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
    6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
    7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
    8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
    9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
    10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*

    *Subject to change. And believe me, I had a hard time judging anyone else with a longer 400H career as more worthy of the number 10 spot than Privalova for her one big year. A symptom of how wide-open this event still is. But if you have a more worthy athlete (Pittman, Halkiá, Pernía, Ambraziené, Ponomaryova, Busch, etc.), now's the time.

    I will say that I'm leaning toward Daimí Pernía (1999 World Champion, 4th in 2000 Olympics) and Margarita Ponomaryova (world record 1984, 3rd/53.48 in 1993 WC behind Gunnell 52.74 WR/SFP 52.79 showdown).

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  • jhc68
    replied
    You can't have a top five list without Schmid and Aki-Bua, IMHO!

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  • Jacksf
    replied
    Didn't Schmid run a sub 1:45 800m?
    He must have the best 400H / 800m combo ever.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    I'd pump Phillips up closer to the top. He's the only man who ever ranked ahead of Ed Moses.

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  • billthedog
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Lord Burghley, F. Morgan Taylor, Roy Cochran and Eddie Southern (Schmid to Glenn Davis's Moses, though not over such an extended period) are about the only ones who haven't been mentioned.

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  • 6 5.5hjsteve
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    ndamix, I guess you have never heard of Glenn Davis ??!! And Charley Moore the"dominant hurdler of the 50's" ????

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  • ndamix
    replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Edwin Moses (Long live the King)

    Harald Schmid (the eternal Prince Charles waiting for his shot at the throne)

    Kevin Young (first/only man to break 47 seconds).

    Felix Sanchez (will he become as dominant as Moses?)

    Charlie Moore (dominant hurdler of the '50s).

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

    Neither Schmid nor Phillips ranked after 1989. I believe that Phillips at his best was better than Schmid at his best.

    Drawbacks for each man:

    Phillips - did not make the 84 Olympic nor 87 World team, was the third American for a while behind Moses and Harris.

    Schmid - Never won a major world event (Olympics, World Cup nor Olympics). Eliminate Moses & he win '83 Helsinki, loses to Harris in '84 & '87. Heck, if we eliminate Moses, Harris might step up.

    Phillips vs. Schmid - in baseball, they have a term, a "compiler" guy who has large career totals, but was never great, just good & consistent. No meet is more important than the Olympics, if you can back up an Olympic gold with a solid career, It helps considerably. Phillips had a better PR than Schmid, was better than him 6 out of 9 years, and ranked #1 three times to Schmid's one.

    Hardin vs. Young - Very interesting. How much do we penalize pre-WW2 athletes for a lack of competition relative to today. Young was great for two years (1992-'93) and very good for another 7, but rather inconsistent before 1992. Hardin was the best from 1932 to '36. It gets very close in here.

    Akii-Bua - was ranked first twice, and likely would have won a world championship had he been afforded the opportunity.

    Young is looking better and better.

    Sanchez is on the verge.

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