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400 IH; the top 5 all time

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  • #31
    Edwin Moses's PRs:
    400 45.60 '77 (WR low-alt Juanotrena 44.26 '76), Moses -1.34
    400H 47.02 '83 (2nd best a-t: Schmid 47.48 '82), Moses +0.46
    400H 47.13 '80 (2nd best a-t: Akii-Bua 47.82 '72), Moses +0.69

    Moses's best net: -0.88 (-1.28 if one uses Evans's 43.86A '68)

    Kevin Young's PRs:
    400 45.11 '92 (WR 43.29 Reynolds '88), Young -1.82
    400H 46.78 '92 (2nd best a-t: Moses 47.02 '83), Young +0.24

    Young's net: -1.58

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    • #32
      Originally posted by dj
      Edwin Moses's PRs:
      Moses's best net: -0.88 (-1.28 if one uses Evans's 43.86A '68)

      Kevin Young's PRs:
      Young's net: -1.58

      Proving that you can find a way to make even the otherworldly PRs of Young look unimpressive....
      ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

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      • #33
        I can't remember the excact words. I don't have the book with me now, but in "Track's Greatest Champions" Cordner Nelson said something about Moses' huge, lunging 8 1/2 ft stride not being suitable for the 400.
        It was great for the hurdles race but was overstriding in the 400 flat race.

        But I like this numbers game since I see there is a case for Glenn Davis as No1 of all time.

        How about this? Give Davis 1 second for the Tartan track and another 1 1/2 sec for training and racing like Moses and we are looking at around 46.5!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Per Andersen
          But I like this numbers game since I see there is a case for Glenn Davis as No1 of all time.

          How about this? Give Davis 1 second for the Tartan track and another 1 1/2 sec for training and racing like Moses and we are looking at around 46.5!

          Good points, that first 1 second for the less lossy synthetic surface I think is reasonable... 1.5 seconds for training advantages is a bit of a stretch.... if we give him .75 (and that is alot) that puts him in the low 47s.


          By the way how tall/big were Davis and Hardin ?... Moses was 6'2+" if I recall.... for one of the better bios that USATF has put together:

          http://www.usatf.org/athletes/bios/oldB ... _Edwin.asp

          at least he had the good sense and support to hire the best agent and coaching team...



          Imagine if they could put together a multimedia bio of Moses on that site.. complete with clips of the '76 and '84 oly. games finals....
          But who at USATF has $$ to do that.. .. heck they dont eve have the
          $$ to include one page text bios of Hardin or Davis...
          ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by paulthefan
            [heck they dont eve have the
            $$ to include one page text bios of Hardin or Davis...
            Glenn Davis
            http://www.usatf.com/HallOfFame/TF/show ... ?HOFIDs=40

            Slats Hardin
            http://www.usatf.com/HallOfFame/TF/show ... ?HOFIDs=67

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            • #36
              Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

              Originally posted by Anonymous
              > And while Schmidt began the streak, Phillips ended it in the best way possible.

              Point of clarification. If we are referring to "THE STREAK" it was not Phillips who ended it.

              From USATF Moses bio:
              "He didn't lose again for another nine years, nine months and nine days until he was defeated on June 4, 1987 by Danny Harris in Madrid, Spain."

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: 400 IH; the top 5 all time

                [quote=Flumpy]
                Originally posted by Andrea_T
                Originally posted by CookyMonzta
                Originally posted by "6 5.5hjsteve":3dgf2cmf
                And for the women:

                1. Sally Gunnell (U.K.)
                2. Deon Hemmings (Jamaica)
                3. Kim Batten (U.S.)
                4. Marina Stepanova (USSR)
                5. Sandra Farmer-Patrick (Jamaica/U.S.)
                6. Debbie Flintoff (Australia)
                7. Nezha Bidouane (Morocco)
                8. Tatyana Ledovskaya (USSR/Belarus)
                9. Ellen Fiedler (E. Germany)
                10. Irina Privalova (Russia)*
                No Busch???!!! :shock:
                Not only should Sabine be in the top 10, she should probably be in the Top 5 (Maybe even 3). Nezha should be way higher as well.
                [/quote:3dgf2cmf]
                Therein lies my problem. Sabine Busch makes a good case for the number 10 spot, but not much further up the list than that. Ellen Fiedler, who took up this event in 1979 or 1980, was ranked number 1 in 1981, and ranked 6 times in the top 10 in a 9-year span, 3 times in the top 3.

                As for Busch, despite ranking number 1 or 2 for 3 years before dropping to 3rd ahead of Fiedler in 1988, it was Fiedler who took the bronze away from her in Seoul. Fiedler's bronze and her early record of rankings decided this one for me. So, knock off Privalova, and insert Busch for number 10.

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                • #38
                  Great discussion. My hat's off to all involved.

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