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Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

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  • Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

    When people discuss the worlds fastest human in this threads there's always a lot of talk about how awesome Hayes was. Other names that are being mentioned is Lewis, Owens and perhaps Greene.
    Seldom anyone mentions Hines.

    Let's copmare Hines and Hayes for a moment.
    Hayes won the '64 OG in 10,06 (+1,03 m/s) on the "chewed-up" iniside lane. Disregarding the bad state of the track this would convert to something like perhaps10,12 with nill wind.
    Impossible to tell the effect of track.

    Hines won in Mexico doing 9,95 with 0,3 m/s tailwind and int altitude. Converts to perhaps 10,08 or something like that.

    At the '68 AAU Hines ran 10,03 (+0,9) on cinder . Converts to perhaps 10,08

    Not that much a difference.

    I think Hines "trouble" was that he had a formidable opponent in Greene whereas Hayes had little copetition....

  • #2
    Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

    You're quite right Falken. Jim Hines was a fantastic sprinter.
    Being the first man ever to break the 10sec barrier hand-timed(9.9s) and electronically(9.95s)I don't know how anyone can forget him.

    His anchor from the 1968 Mexico OG Men's 4x100m final was verey memorable.

    He ran a la Hayes, as Hayes did in the previous games(Tokyo 1964. Turning a deficit of 3m into a 3m lead).

    Charlie Greene gace him the baton about 2-3m down on Enrique Figuerola(CUB) and he ran him down to record a 1m lead.

    His time of 9.95s(+0.3m/s) from the 1968 Games is still a World Class time today, as an elite sprinter's main goal today is to break the 10.00sec barrier.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

      I beg to differ. Hines can not be spoken about in the same breath as Bob Hayes. In fact some people felt he was a rather lucky winner in Mexico catching a great start while Lennox Miller and Charlie Green were left in the blocks. In fact he was beatem by Miller (Inger Millers dad) in the semi final quite comfortably.

      If you have access to the 4 x 1 tape compare the anchor legs of Hines (first) and Miller (fast finishing fourth)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

        Hayes stands head and shoulders above Hines primarily because of long he was dominant, not just one race, where you tweak all the numbers you want to make them "equal."

        If you look at the four years Hayes was in the World Rankings you find he was undefeated in '61 (6/6, mainly in small races). Then he ranked No. 1 three years in a row, winning 13/15 in '62, then going undefeated in both '63 (14/14) and 64 (11/11). Compare that w/ Hines's 5/9 record in '68 when he was Oly champ.

        Hayes had "no competition" simply because he was that much better than the rest! Guys like WR setters Frank Budd and Harry Jerome were every bit as good as Charlie Greene, who used to beat up on Hines from time to time, but they weren't good enough to approach Hayes.

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        • #5
          Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

          >I beg to differ. Hines can not be spoken about in
          >the same breath as Bob Hayes. In fact some people
          >felt he was a rather lucky winner in Mexico
          >catching a great start while Lennox Miller and
          >Charlie Green were left in the blocks. In fact he
          >was beatem by Miller (Inger Millers dad) in the
          >semi final quite comfortably.

          If you have
          >access to the 4 x 1 tape compare the anchor legs
          >of Hines (first) and Miller (fast finishing
          >fourth)


          When I said that he ran an a la Bob hayes' leg, I didn't mean to compare him to 'ol Bob, (as you stated) because he as simply uncompareable(is that how you spell it???) to any sprinter that is currently living , or who has ever lived...

          Bob rules over the 100m sprint world.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

            Hines is the most underrated great sprinter in history, and here's why I think so. At the 1968 AAU meet in Sacramento, when he ran the first official 9.9 for 100 meters, his electronic time was 10.03. That was on dirt, and it was slightly faster than Hayes' 10.05 in Tokyo. The nationals returned to Hughes Stadium in 1981 and 1995, after a synthetic surface had replaced the clay surface, and no sprinter matched his time. Carl Lewis won in 1981, Mike Marsh in 1995. There's no telling how fast Hines might have run had he stayed with it (the same could be said of Owens, Hayes and others, of course).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

              Garry,

              I DO agree. Hayes was the best. My point is that it is strange that Hines never seems to be a factor when the best sprinters are discussed.
              I don't however think that Jerome and Figuerola was as fast as Greene. If he hadn't bin injured during the Mexico olympics HE might have bin remebered as one of the great ones.
              As I remeber he wasn't that far behind Hayes in some race in 1964 (before he got injured that year)... and surely he was a better sprinter in 1966 - 1968.....

              But sure; Hayes was best !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                Hayes would have won the Olympic 100 meters in 68' if he had of kept on running. Of course he had to eat, so he went to the NFL and had a Hall of Fame career.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                  5 months after the last post on this one, but those praising Hines for his 10.03 in the '68 AAU semi-final should bear in mind that Hines lost the final to Greene later that night. From memory Greene was 10-4 against Hines during their careers. Hines was a better 100 + 200 man than Greene, but Greene was a better 100 man - though neither could compare with Hayes

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                    My ultimate 100m scenario:

                    A time machine has been invented, and all the great 100m sprinters are transported to the present day. They all train under today's techonlogy, they have all benefited from today's technology (spikes, tracks, nutrition, psychology, etc.)
                    Their technique's are perfected, their drive phase, acceleration, top speed, speed endurance, everything has been perfected to their personal
                    potential...and every sprinter is at their peak, and ready to run.

                    The race is taking place at Addis Abiba in Africa (extremely high altitude, around 2300-2500m above sea-level!), on a mondo track with the hardness which matches that of the Tokyo, Atlanta and Edmonton tracks...

                    There are many, many heats, which will decide which sprinter will advance further on into the next rounds (quarter-final, semi-final &, in the end, final) and also who will be eliminated.

                    All the rounds have been run, who do YOU think will advance to the final???

                    And (all things being equal) who will win the final??? What time???

                    My final (I have only thought about this briefly, so feel free to be suprised at my final line-up!):
                    Lane 1: Charles Greene
                    Lane 2: Jesse Owens
                    Lane 3: Carl Lewis
                    Lane 4: Maurice Greene
                    Lane 5: Bob Hayes
                    Lane 6: Jim Hines
                    Lane 7: Linford Christie
                    Lane 8: Armin Hary

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                      In continued defense of Hines: Greene was underrated, too. I personally think Greene was a better sprinter than Jerome or Budd. Just my opinion. I do think Hayes was the greatest ever. I just think Hines deserves mention in the top five, say. 1. Hayes. 2. Lewis. 3. Owens. 4. Borzov. 5. Hines. Bailey in 1996 could have run with just about anyone, but he didn't have a very long run at the top.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                        Is it my imagination, or does anyone know that Bob Hayes ran a wind-aided 9.9 in the Tokyo semis?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                          >Is it my imagination, or does anyone know that Bob Hayes ran a wind-aided 9.9
                          >in the Tokyo semis?

                          Yes indeed, he ran 9.91w (+5.3m/s) to demolish the rest of the field. I still cannot understand
                          that although he ran 9.91w, clearly the fastest of all the qualifiers, he was put in Lane 1 in the final...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                            wonder no more, the final results are in brought to you by ME:

                            1.Hayes 9.72
                            2.Lewis 9.75
                            3.Hines 9.76
                            4.M. Greene 9.77
                            5.Owens 9.84
                            6.C. Greene 9.89
                            7. Hary 9.91
                            8. Christie 9.91

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Much talk about Hayes, not so much about Hines...

                              Jim HINES was a king like so many other sprinters
                              in history.
                              And Bob HAYES will always remain as the king of
                              the kings.

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