The Great 800 Showdown

[paulthefan]

snell couda had the mental fortitude of alexander/charlemagne/atilla/genghis combined, but all the modern training in the world & modern track, he ain't going 1'41-flat

If snell could have ditched the coach he had and gotten some of the modern methods and aids he goes sub 140. ....splits 49.8 and 50.

[gh]

No one's a bigger Snell fan than I, but I don't think he had the native speed to run anywhere near that. (and neither did Lydiard)

[26mi235]

Having looked again at Coe's and Kipketer's WRs on youtube. Almost all 800 m records over the past ~70 years (starting with Harbig's 1:46.6 in 1939) were set in races where the winner was way ahead of his competitors. Only exceptions seem to be Moens of 1955 (Boysen was quite close) and Juantorena's records in the mid 70s. Any special reasons for this? Most people regard the 800 m record as being somewhat inferior to most other track records, what with only nine(?) improvements over Harbig's pre WWII effort.

It seems that the 800 is where the change in energy systems really catches up with people. You have to deal fully with not running as a sprint and that going to hard early bits you pretty bad.

You have to average 50.x, which is an interesting number because it seems that no matter how slow a mid- long-distance race is and how slow, within reason) they go out, you do not see finishes faster than 50.x

Some of the slow 1500s have very fast last 600-700m but not fast last 800m, and this seems to be the case whether they go out at 61/1:32 or 66/1:40.

[eldrick]

just realised that joaquim wasn't exactly a runt, so perhaps no such thing as an "ideal body size" for 800m ?

[eldrick]

interesting thoughts from a coach :

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank13.html

[paulthefan]

No one's a bigger Snell fan than I, but I don't think he had the native speed to run anywhere near that. (and neither did Lydiard)

No bigger fan of gh and Lydiard than paulthefan but it was not a matter of native speed. It doesnt take "native speed" to run fast in the 800 it takes rather great 800m meter native talent. Snell had more than any other.

[paulthefan]

interesting thoughts from a coach :
http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank13.html

what a pile of rubish, parts of it are utterly backwards and total swill... read that nonsense and your brain could rot.

[catson52]

"No, but his coach said Henry Carr could've."

Now there's a name that hasn't come up for a long time. Was one of my early heroes. Would have been interesting if he had stuck to track and tried the 400 m more seriously and also the 800 m. One of my fond memories is taking my kid out to study at ASU, and going on the Harry Carr Stadium track in Tempe.

[paulthefan]

"No, but his coach said Henry Carr could've."

His coach was a neanderthal, Im a great fan of the coach but with a Snell in the barn any jockey could have won.

[eldrick]

It doesnt take "native speed" to run fast in the 800 it takes rather great 800m meter native talent. Snell had more than any other.

well, seeing as a part-time 800m, junior, matched his wr within 5y, i don't think so...

[paulthefan]

It doesnt take "native speed" to run fast in the 800 it takes rather great 800 meter native talent. Snell had more than any other.

well, seeing as a part-time 800m, junior, matched his wr within 5y, i don't think so...

well now Im stuck in a possible checkmate as I adore Ryun... my hat off to you Eldy.