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Smith Disputes Carlos Version Of '68 Race In New Book

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  • Mennisco
    replied
    Originally posted by paulthefan
    couple that Bronze with top ranking in 69 and 70 at both the 100 and 200 and Carlos is on a short list of 20th century greats.
    Someone should put Carlos' mouth on a short leash.

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  • paulthefan
    replied
    couple that Bronze with top ranking in 69 and 70 at both the 100 and 200 and Carlos is on a short list of 20th century greats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kevin Richardson
    replied
    A bronze medal puts him well beyond most of humanity in terms of athletic talent and diligence. To say it is not AAAALLLL that is to show disrespect for an outstanding performance.

    Leave a comment:


  • paulthefan
    replied
    At least Johnson could say in the 1940s when he concocted the story that he really did need the $$.

    Leave a comment:


  • Track fan
    replied
    Originally posted by skyin' brian
    Smith was on Costas on the Radio this morning, and Bob did bring this up. Smith said that he hoped that Carlos was only joking, but did conceed that Carlos had not admitted to Smith that he was not serious.

    As usual for Costas, it was a very interesting interview. He even tried to relate to the "younger" portion of the audience that Smith was the Michael Johnson of his time!

    The guest for the 2nd hour of the show was John Mellencamp.
    This seems like similar hubris to Jack Johnson's when he claimed to throw the Willard fight because it looked like he was shielding his eyes in the famous ko photo. All ringside accounts stated that Johnson was starting to get teed off on because he was tiring and was legitimately ko'd. Here there is clear evidence that Carlos tied up and two runners legitimately passed him. Also unlike Johnson the pictures aren't grainy and track doesn't have the shady past with gambling and fixing that boxing did.

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  • skyin' brian
    replied
    Smith was on Costas on the Radio this morning, and Bob did bring this up. Smith said that he hoped that Carlos was only joking, but did conceed that Carlos had not admitted to Smith that he was not serious.

    As usual for Costas, it was a very interesting interview. He even tried to relate to the "younger" portion of the audience that Smith was the Michael Johnson of his time!

    The guest for the 2nd hour of the show was John Mellencamp.

    Leave a comment:


  • Texas
    replied
    Originally posted by tafnut
    Originally posted by Texas
    Carlos has always been a flake.
    At his speed, he can be as flaky as he wanna be!
    A third place in the 200, is not ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that.

    Leave a comment:


  • tafnut
    replied
    Originally posted by Texas
    Carlos has always been a flake.
    At his speed, he can be as flaky as he wanna be!

    Leave a comment:


  • Texas
    replied
    Carlos has always been a flake.

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  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by bf
    For his semifinal effort, Carlos should have at least gotten credit (if retroactively) for an auto-timed WR, 20.12. If he thought Tommie was likely going to blitz him in the final, maybe he decided to grab a WR while he could ..?
    I very much doubt that he thought any such thing. In fact, given that it was the Olympic Games, I doubt that he was thinking of records at all, or anything else other than the podium.

    Leave a comment:


  • bf
    replied
    For his semifinal effort, Carlos should have at least gotten credit (if retroactively) for an auto-timed WR, 20.12. If he thought Tommie was likely going to blitz him in the final, maybe he decided to grab a WR while he could ..? And maybe strike a little fear? He was possibly miffed that his 19.92 at OTs was disallowed.

    Leave a comment:


  • paulthefan
    replied
    Originally posted by rhymans
    You may be right, but... look at at the facts
    OG Final Best time Pre-OG
    OG Prelims PR
    Smith 19.83 20.14 20.14A
    Norman 20.06 20.22 20.5 Hand
    Carlos 20.10 20.12 19.92A
    Roberts 20.34 20.44 20.3 Hand '64
    Bambuck 20.51 20.47 20.51 '67
    Questad 20.62 20.48 20.28A
    Fray 20.63 20.46 20.1 Hand
    Eigenherr 20.66 20.49 20.7 Hand

    Of the finalists,3 ran lifetime bests in the final - can you really say that any of those 3 was hindered by how they ran in the prelims,
    actually yes, I think that all three were,

    Smith injured himself in his semi, had he not won by 4 meters there he goes 19.6 in the final. Carlos ran a 20.1 in his semi ...unnecessary, big mistake...
    Norman overdid it in all his rounds.


    The lower tier fellows were stretched to the max to get into the final so their poor performance is as much a function of them having to run their best just to make it to the final.. so again the principle applies: The harder you (have to) run in the rounds the less you have for the final...

    OK to summarize,

    1) there is nothing any of the OTHER competitors/finalists could have done in terms of how they managed their rounds to have broken into the top 3... the fact is that Smith/Norman/Carlos were not going to be knocked off the podium except by bizarre circumstances.

    All three winners made big mistakes:
    2) Of these three, Carlos' semifinal was the biggest, after running his rounds strong he blows out a whopper 20.1 in the semifinal leaves even Norman a meter down.. that likely cost him the silver medal. For even if Norman had run his rounds wisely/judiciously it is possible that a fresh Carlos holds him off even if barely, with both easily getting under 20.

    3) Norman runs his rounds in recklessly. All of his rounds seem to be gangbuster rounds, he is running all 4 of them like a man fighting to get into the final when in fact he is a shoe in. This costs him at least a 1/10 in the final. Winning an opening round by 4m is just plain wasteful.

    4) Tommie overdoes it in his semi too, goes into the final with a less than perfect leg because of it... and for what reason? to win his semi by 4 meters? very poor trade.

    Had all three run their rounds wiser, they all go under 20 easily and Carlos perhaps just barely holds off Norman by a whisker for silver. Tommie wins in 19.6A.

    Again Carlos' mistake is NOT that he gave up in the closing 40m of the final, rather it is that because of how he ran his semi there is nothing left to give in the closing 40m of that final straight. So in the final analysis he is fairly beaten by Smith and Norman.

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  • rhymans
    replied
    Paul the Fan wrote:

    Norman, by your calculation he goes into his round one with a PR of 20.5 and runs a 20.23A which we can altitude correct to say a 20.5 or 20.6... so he runs at most 1/10 under his PR in the initial round of the Olympics and you say he did not overdue it... how often would you say running 1/10 from your PR in the first of a 4 round event is not too much too soon.... Look at the video and see that he runs 4m ahead of the second place fellow, it is obvious... that is a terrible waste of energy and nerves.. it likely cost him a 1/10 in the final...

    You may be right, but... look at at the facts
    OG Final Best time Pre-OG
    OG Prelims PR
    Smith 19.83 20.14 20.14A
    Norman 20.06 20.22 20.5 Hand
    Carlos 20.10 20.12 19.92A
    Roberts 20.34 20.44 20.3 Hand '64
    Bambuck 20.51 20.47 20.51 '67
    Questad 20.62 20.48 20.28A
    Fray 20.63 20.46 20.1 Hand
    Eigenherr 20.66 20.49 20.7 Hand

    Of the finalists,3 ran lifetime bests in the final - can you really say that any of those 3 was hindered by how they ran in the prelims, particularly when 4 of the 8 obviously underperformed, while one (Carlos) clearly lost at least 1/10th (possibly 2/10ths) by losing concentration. Norman ran superbly, and I've never heard anyone previously suggest that he could have run faster, especially when you consider that he was 0.16 faster than in the semis, and about 4 metres quicker than he he'd ever run prior to Mexico [20.5 +0.24 for hand timing, less say 0.3 for altitude = 20.44]

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  • guru
    replied
    Interview with Tommie Smith on the CBS Early Show this week(includes video).

    http://tinyurl.com/2dnhhx

    Leave a comment:


  • tafnut
    replied
    Somewhere I've seen video of the race that shows facial expressions much more clearly, and the face that Carlos has when Smith 'blows by him' (as indeed he does) is not one of smug satisfaction - it's one of genuine dismay as Carlos realizes that Smith couldn't be recaught. Carlos really did 'lose it' after that as you see him stagger and windmill his arms. That's not the style of a man who's shutting it down to let a teammate win (not to mention the illogic JC uses in the podium bit. If he, JC had won and TS were second, he'd have his perfect scenario to make the Gesture)!

    Leave a comment:

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