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Wilma Rudolph: What if She'd Competed Until Munich?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mennisco
    Rog wrote: remember Boyle ran a 49.7 relay leg without preparation.

    When did she do this? I've always thought she'd have won the 400 easily in Mexico, Munich and possibly also Montreal had she been focussed/focused on that event.
    Boyle did 50.8 in München'72 and 50.7 in Brisbane'82. This 49.7 is weird.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pierre-Jean
      Originally posted by Mennisco
      Rog wrote: remember Boyle ran a 49.7 relay leg without preparation.

      When did she do this? I've always thought she'd have won the 400 easily in Mexico, Munich and possibly also Montreal had she been focussed/focused on that event.
      Boyle did 50.8 in München'72 and 50.7 in Brisbane'82. This 49.7 is weird.
      My source is Raelene's autobiography - the 72 Olympics was before my time! Didn't Szewinska's Coach, Mach, tell them both in early 74 that they could both break 50?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rog
        Originally posted by Pierre-Jean
        Originally posted by Mennisco
        Rog wrote: remember Boyle ran a 49.7 relay leg without preparation.

        When did she do this? I've always thought she'd have won the 400 easily in Mexico, Munich and possibly also Montreal had she been focussed/focused on that event.
        Boyle did 50.8 in München'72 and 50.7 in Brisbane'82. This 49.7 is weird.
        My source is Raelene's autobiography - the 72 Olympics was before my time! Didn't Szewinska's Coach, Mach, tell them both in early 74 that they could both break 50?
        If you're referring to Gerard Mach, I believe by 1974 he'd been hired by the CTFA [Canada] as National Sprint and Hurdle Coach. Under his tutelage, Marjorie Bailey and Patty Loverock blossomed into 23.06 and 23.03 [unpedified most certified] 200 runners by '76, and the Canadian women's 4x1 was the first totally clean team [IMOSHO] to the line in the Montreal final in 43.17 - as Bailey held off Boyle by 0.01.

        Mach sprint drills alone are a textbook's wealth of training information and insights brought from observations made in East Germany prior to 1974.

        But I digress - I thought Szewinska was coached by her husband, a former one-lap hurdler, by 1974? Someone can clarify. And I would not be surprised if Boyle ran 49.7, just surprised that I've never heard of it.
        Take good care of yourself.

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        • #19
          Here's my dream field for the Munich 200:

          Rudolph shows up going for a fourth gold. Szewinska didn't have a baby the year before, and has already captured the Euro 400 gold. Boyle has meanwhile captured the Commonwealth 200/400 double and has beaten Szewinska in the Munich 400 final. Stecher gets lane 1 as a handicap. :P
          Silvia Chivas is in lane 3 and burns an 11.30 opening 100. Boyle is in 4, Rudolph in 5, and Wilma will be chasing, in lane 6......Chi Cheng, the new 100 meter champion.

          Scheduling is not an issue here, the schedule allowed for it. Remember, this is an idealized event.
          Take good care of yourself.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mennisco
            Here's my dream field for the Munich 200:

            Rudolph shows up going for a fourth gold. Szewinska didn't have a baby the year before, and has already captured the Euro 400 gold. Boyle has meanwhile captured the Commonwealth 200/400 double and has beaten Szewinska in the Munich 400 final. Stecher gets lane 1 as a handicap. :P
            Silvia Chivas is in lane 3 and burns an 11.30 opening 100. Boyle is in 4, Rudolph in 5, and Wilma will be chasing, in lane 6......Chi Cheng, the new 100 meter champion.

            Scheduling is not an issue here, the schedule allowed for it. Remember, this is an idealized event.
            Didn't Chi Cheng run a hand-timed 22.4 before Munich? I believe it was in 1970, no? Wilma would have taken it down to 22.1 by that time, to go along with an automatic 22.30. And I'd bet the farm that 100y hand-timed WR would have been hers at 9.8 by 1969, en route to a 10.7 100m, to go with an automatic 10.95A at Mexico City.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by CookyMonzta
              Didn't Chi Cheng run a hand-timed 22.4 before Munich? I believe it was in 1970, no? Wilma would have taken it down to 22.1 by that time, to go along with an automatic 22.30. And I'd bet the farm that 100y hand-timed WR would have been hers at 9.8 by 1969, en route to a 10.7 100m, to go with her automatic 10.95A at Mexico City.
              Chi's 1970 season was her huge breakthrough year. After that she has something like 17" of leg muscle removed in an operation and never got to continue her progression.
              Take good care of yourself.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Mennisco
                Chi's 1970 season was her huge breakthrough year. After that she has something like 17" of leg muscle removed in an operation and never got to continue her progression.
                I always wondered why Chi Cheng never competed in 1971, 1972 and thereafter. Imagine if she were able to attempt a comeback in the 400 in 1973 (she ranked #2 in 1970 in that event, behind Marilyn Neufville and her WR of 51.02, altough I don't know how fast Chi ran that year)...

                http://trackfield.brinkster.net/RecProg ... 3&Gender=W

                ...And imagine if Wilma had continued to run until 1973. She and Chi might have pushed each other to under 50.00.

                By the way, I didn't know it until now, but Renate Stecher's hand-timed 10.8 in 1973 and automatic 11.07 were in the same race, tying her Munich WR.

                http://trackfield.brinkster.net/RecProg ... 1&Gender=W

                Wilma would have run 10.7 in 1968 or '69.

                Notice how fast Wyomia Tyus' automatic WR of 11.23 from Tokyo came down when she took to the track at Mexico City (11.21, 11.12, 11.08, all altitude)? Weren't the Olympic Trials held at altitude (Echo Summit)? That is where John Carlos ran 19.92 and Lee Evans 44.06, no? If Wilma had been there (assuming the women competed at the same venue), she'd have run 11.1x (10.9 hand) in the heats, before running 11.0x (10.8h).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Trivia question: Who was the first woman to break 11 seconds, under any conditions? Jon may remember this since I put this out there 3 years ago and nobody got it right. So Jon, can you give others a chance first here, thanks, and don't tell your friends
                  Take good care of yourself.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Nobody should look at any lists either to try this, it's a damn hard question that separates the women from the girls so let's see who can do it on their own. Answer honestly foks, do it without looking. Or fess up if ya did.

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                    • #25
                      If you're referring to Gerard Mach, I believe by 1974 he'd been hired by the CTFA [Canada] as National Sprint and Hurdle Coach.... But I digress - I thought Szewinska was coached by her husband, a former one-lap hurdler, by 1974? Someone can clarify. And I would not be surprised if Boyle ran 49.7, just surprised that I've never heard of it.[/quote]

                      In an old Athletics Weekly, which ran a tribute to Raelene Boyle after her retirement, they ran a story which included a reference to her running on the North American indoor circuit after winning the Commonwealth double in early 74. She was in peak condition and apparently cleaning up - Szewinska was there too and not doing so well. Mach was talking to them both and made the point about them being able to break 50. I presume that this conversation took place in Canada - I know that by this time Mach had moved to Canada, and Szewinska was being coached by her husband.

                      On a side note, it seems like the 400 was very much a Cinderella event for the women until the mid-seventies, at which point it became the most exciting discipline of all for about ten years. We're talking about what might have been achieved in the late sixties - I find it astonishing that a time of about 52 seconds was sufficient to win gold at Mexico in 68, on a tartan track at altitude, when the first man was running under 44 seconds. I've seen a recording of that race, and by modern standards they look like they're jogging!

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                      • #26
                        I would say Margaret Bailes but i guess there is a trap somewhere...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Rog
                          In an old Athletics Weekly, which ran a tribute to Raelene Boyle after her retirement, they ran a story which included a reference to her running on the North American indoor circuit after winning the Commonwealth double in early 74. She was in peak condition and apparently cleaning up - Szewinska was there too and not doing so well.
                          The latter fact is not surprising, given Szewinska's height and the prevalance, in those days, of small, banked board, indoor tracks.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Pierre-Jean
                            I would say Margaret Bailes but i guess there is a trap somewhere...
                            Excellent PJ!! At age 17, in 1968, she ran 10.8 seconds with wind and altitude. Not many high-schoolers in the world today could duplicate such a feat. Now if SHE had continued until Munich.....what a shame!
                            Take good care of yourself.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tandfman
                              Originally posted by Rog
                              In an old Athletics Weekly, which ran a tribute to Raelene Boyle after her retirement, they ran a story which included a reference to her running on the North American indoor circuit after winning the Commonwealth double in early 74. She was in peak condition and apparently cleaning up - Szewinska was there too and not doing so well.
                              The latter fact is not surprising, given Szewinska's height and the prevalance, in those days, of small, banked board, indoor tracks.
                              I'd have to dig out my program from the Toronto Star indoor games in '74, but I recall Szewinska winning the 300 meters, narrowly defeating Marjorie Baily, in a slowish 39.x. On a banked, wooden 160 yard track. Fetched her autograph and Boyle's, Boyle took the 50 in 5.7 after a 5.6 heat.
                              Take good care of yourself.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Rog wrote:

                                I find it astonishing that a time of about 52 seconds was sufficient to win gold at Mexico in 68, on a tartan track at altitude, when the first man was running under 44 seconds. I've seen a recording of that race, and by modern standards they look like they're jogging!

                                Szewinska and Boyle would have finished 1-2, running backwards, on their lips.
                                Take good care of yourself.

                                Comment

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